Re: Leszek Kolakowski on the Marxian LTV


Hunter wrote:
> Ron Peterson wrote:

> > Yes, but prices and costs are distorted by factors of supply and
> > demand. There needs to be some theory to normalize those factors.

> But not a theory which has no roots in the real world; not a theory
> which is essentially philosophical/sociological speculation about how
> the world would be better if we could realize an utopian state of
> being.

Marx and Engels rejected the utopian approach to socialism.

> > > The LTV is essentially a normative and deductive construct.

> > What are you trying to say? You don't have an alternative economic
> > model. Adam Smith and Ricardo had the same basic theory.

> By normative I'm saying that the LTV is driven not by facts but by
> ethical and moral judgments as to how social relations should and
> should not be arranged. "Should" and "ought" are normative terms. "Is"
> and "are" are different. They're addressed to present reality.

You seem to have a hypothesis that if someone has a goal, then their
work is tainted by that goal.

> > Marx was trying to give an understanding of capitalism. What ever his
> > motives, his economic model should be the sole item of discussion for
> > this thread.

> Not when his "economic model" dovetailed perfectly with
> Marxist/Leninist political strategy throughout the 20th Century--and at
> the same time the economic model turned out to be a manifest failure in
> the empirical sense, a fact that Marxist/Leninists refused to
> acknowledge---for political, not economic, reasons. In the end, as was
> the case with Marx, what mattered was politics, not a valid and
> enduring assessment of capitaliist systems.

Marx isn't around to defend himself, so there isn't a point to
psychologically analyze his motives.

> > > And why do you use the normative term "should have"?

> > It's only hypothetical.

> Okay, but the use of normative language is generally quite telling.
> Moral judgments tend to creep into conversations without much fanfare.
> It's important when we speak of disciplines such as economics which
> ideally should be value free when the goal is the objective truth of
> the matter.

Why don't you tell that to the politicians that want to ban stem cell
research.

--
Ron

.