Re: Effects of raising minimum wages in USA

Michał Gancarski wrote:

There is no such thing as lack of consumer demand unless some organisation
steps in and uses violence to mess with prices.

Did you ever heard about money ? Did you ever noticed that some people
are not going to give you something you need unless you have to give them
that thingy called money ?

If consumers does not have enough money, they can not afford to buy what
they need. You don't need any organization to step in with violence. You
only need the economic power to be concentrated into a few hands and
without democratic oversight. I gave you the link with nurses. You didn't
understand a damn thing or you refused to understand a damn thing.
I gave it to you again:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/21/us/21nurses.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

There was NO organization to came in with violence to force nurses to get
lower pay. It was the stupid "libertarian free market" (aka no oversight)
at work. The owners of economical power talked with each other and formed
an local oligopoly in order to cheat nurses.

This is why the "libertarian free market" it is doomed to be a failure.
You remove democratic oversight from the economic power, then the owners of
economic power will hijack it and set up oligopolies. Simple as that.
The whole concept of "libertarian free market" it is stupid, it is a farce.

But of course, ideology have to prevail so you say lies like:
"""
There is no such thing as lack of consumer demand unless some organisation
steps in and uses violence to mess with prices.
"""

Despite the fact that for any 3 year old this is pure nonsense.
If consumers are not payed enough they just don't have money to buy things
which in economic is translated a lack of demand.


This is what happen right now by paying dividends to shareholders.
They are not productive at all,

Of course they are, they made economic decisions so productive that now
they have a constant inflow of money from dividends.

Nope. They set up the rules of the games so that productive economically
coerced to work for them.

Of course they do. They provide the society with integral part of
financial markets - the most amazing tool man created for assessing and
optimizing investment decisions in a world of uncertainty.

I.E lies cheating for a proffit. When a small guy do that he lands in jail,
when a rich guy do that he is considered a successfull businessman.


A government bureaucrat actually do a useful job for the money.

He does not. Otherwise no one would have to be robbed to pay him his wage.

He do something people need, as opposed to a shareholders who just demand
money for not doing anything usefull.

But again, a libertarian refuse to see anything which prove that his
ideology is just trash. Discarding the facts and circular logic are the
best tool a libertarian use to propagate his nonsense.

Yes, it may not be the most productive job out there, but it is
definitely
better than playing golf or poker as rich shareholders do.

I have never understood why having a good time makes some people so full
of frustration.

Because they use economic coercion to rob money from wealth creators in
order to have a good time.


You see supply-demand at work on job market but refuse to
see it on goods market.

Supply-demand is the rule that makes your statements false. Unless someone
steps in and starts using violence to mess with prices and prevents the
rule from working.

You don't need violence. Economic coercion combined with obsolete rules do
the trick. It is called "libertarian style free market", a faulty concept
which is doomed to always degenerate into an oligopoly.


Why ? Because the ideology you were mislead to
believe in is based on hate of anyone making a living by not looting from
others.

Universal phrases are simple to use but, apparently, useless. What is
more, this particular one should be said by me, not you. It is you who
advocate taking someone's property using violence,

No. I just advocate less looting.
Libertarians advocate a society where looting is unstopable, it is called
"unregulated free market" = oligopoly breeding ground.

it is you who says that
when two adults want to make a deal there should be someone else who
should prevent it by force.

No. I say that a deal must be fair.

I say that a worker with 3$ in pocket and his rent or mortgage overdue can
not negotiate fairly with a multibillion dollar corporation. A union
having as members all workers that can work for that company will be the
only organization able to fairly negotiate with it. But since in US we do
not have a strong union able to stand against all the employers, we need
gov. to oversight.


up life, ok? Not able to get rich? Good, someone else is and will.

Yes. because he looted from others. And libertarian ideology encourage
looting as something good.


.

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