Re: More freedom-hating "libertarians"


"Davinchi" <mulldrat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:469da9c4$0$31202$4c368faf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
sinister wrote:
"Peter B. P." <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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sinister <sinister@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Peter B. P." <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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sinister <sinister@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

http://www.ldp.org.au/federal/policies/propertyRights.html

The LDP believes the ownership of property is a fundamental right
that
precedes the power of government.
Widespread private ownership of property is also a signficantly
preferable
alternative to either collective ownership or ownership by a
privileged
elite.

The LDP supports the right of 'eminent domain' of property owners
over
their
property. It believes neither the State nor other members of society
should
be able to limit or interfere with the right to enjoy property so
long as
such enjoyment does not involve coercion of others.

Specific LPD policies:

The LDP supports the right of landlords and tenants to freely
negotiate
the
terms of tenancies, free from state rules and restrictions.
snip

Sinister, i agree with you on this point, but to generalize from one
point to claim that one group of people are "freedom-hating" is
spurios
and unecessary poliemical.
I'm implicitly making a _statistical_ generalization, which I claim
stands.

That doesn't detract from my admiration (if not complete agreement
with)
geolibertarians and Georgists and yourself (I assume you essentially
fall
into those camps).
Thank you*. However, back to the point: Does the LDP of Australia
mention anything about land value taxation?

Not on that page, but I think a reasonable inference given what they
wrote in the linked text would imply they're against LVT. Certainly,
they appear to have no understanding that there's no natural right to use
landed property in any way the "owner" sees fit, given that the owner
cannot naturally, rightfully exclude others from the property.

*) Since I am in favor of a morderate to large LVT, I think that I fall
into the G-ist camp.

--
regards , Peter B. P.
http://titancity.com/blog , http://macplanet.dk

"We don't dial 911 - we dial .357".


I just have to chime in.
It's not that Libertarians are freedom hating per se. It

Yes, it is. When a libertarian scoffs at the notion that exclusive use of a
natural resource should be paired with a payment to the State or to others
for their loss of access to that resource, we can conclude one or both of
the following:
(1) They despise freedom and liberty, and/or
(2) They have no understanding of economics.

just seems that way when encountering modern society where there are rules
to promote and maintain a civil society.

It's much more fundamental than that.

Left-wing critiques of (right-wing) libertarianism (as distinguished from
left-libertarianism) often focus their attacks on the libertarians refusal
to abide by some purported social contract.

While these attacks _can_ be useful and accurate, they are not as
fundamental as (unless they include) the following two points, which
comprise the _true_ soft underbelly of libertarian theory:
(1) Without government, it's an empirical fact that humans devolve into a
war of all against all. (There might be exceptions when e.g. the ratio of
humans to natural resources is extremely low; see commenter royls in this
group for intelligent discussion.)
(2) Any system of political economy whereby certain privileged individuals
get access to natural resources without compensating those denied access is
fundamentally unjust and, indeed, a tyranny.

Hence, they don't abide by any regulation in support of the commons or
agree to any idea of public goods. In modern times, Libertarians are not
free market promoters, but free rider opportunist. I've seen it so many
times it hurts, but they simply won't agree to anything that limit their
choice even when they demand equal access to the commons and benefit from
societies organization and infrastructure.
Look at a libertarian, and I'll bet you odds you will find most of the
characteristics of Narcissistic Personality Disorder - a sociopathic
mental illness.

Again, I don't disagree, but such attacks are _far_ stronger if their made
with the land economics argument in mind, because it's not refutable.
Arguments based on vague notions of the "common good" _can_ be refuted in
ways not inconsistent with fundamental notions of justice, fairness, and
social order, on the other hand.

IMHO the fact that so many liberals (in the American sense, not British
sense) and leftists are unwilling or unable to adopt major portions (if not
the entirety) of the Georgist viewpoint is an unfortunate state of affairs.
To what extent it stems from an inability to understand economics versus an
unfortunate state of being wed to Marxist delusions is not clear to me.

Cheers.

-----
"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of
fighting a foreign enemy." -- James Madison
.....


.

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