Re: More freedom-hating "libertarians"


"Davinchi" <mulldrat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Peter B. P. wrote:
Davinchi <mulldrat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

sinister wrote:
"Peter B. P." <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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sinister <sinister@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Peter B. P." <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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sinister <sinister@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

http://www.ldp.org.au/federal/policies/propertyRights.html

The LDP believes the ownership of property is a fundamental right
that
precedes the power of government.
Widespread private ownership of property is also a signficantly
preferable
alternative to either collective ownership or ownership by a
privileged
elite.

The LDP supports the right of 'eminent domain' of property owners
over
their
property. It believes neither the State nor other members of
society
should
be able to limit or interfere with the right to enjoy property so
long
as
such enjoyment does not involve coercion of others.

Specific LPD policies:

The LDP supports the right of landlords and tenants to freely
negotiate
the
terms of tenancies, free from state rules and restrictions.
snip

Sinister, i agree with you on this point, but to generalize from one
point to claim that one group of people are "freedom-hating" is
spurios
and unecessary poliemical.
I'm implicitly making a _statistical_ generalization, which I claim
stands.

That doesn't detract from my admiration (if not complete agreement
with)
geolibertarians and Georgists and yourself (I assume you essentially
fall
into those camps).
Thank you*. However, back to the point: Does the LDP of Australia
mention anything about land value taxation?
Not on that page, but I think a reasonable inference given what they
wrote
in the linked text would imply they're against LVT. Certainly, they
appear
to have no understanding that there's no natural right to use landed
property in any way the "owner" sees fit, given that the owner cannot
naturally, rightfully exclude others from the property.

*) Since I am in favor of a morderate to large LVT, I think that I
fall
into the G-ist camp.

--
regards , Peter B. P.
http://titancity.com/blog , http://macplanet.dk

"We don't dial 911 - we dial .357".

I just have to chime in.
It's not that Libertarians are freedom hating per se. It just seems
that way when encountering modern society where there are rules to
promote and maintain a civil society.
Hence, they don't abide by any regulation in support of the commons or
agree to any idea of public goods. In modern times, Libertarians are
not free market promoters, but free rider opportunist.

Onl in regards to land. In regards to goods, labor and capital, they are
indeed free market advocates.

You say only, so I disagree. On goods, your right. On capital, it's
questionable. On labor, I know of a few Libertarians that have are
deceitful and use asymmetric information to take advantage of labor.

<snip>

But you miss the fundamental point of Georgist analysis: the reason labor
is constrained is because of lack of access to natural resources.

Take, for example, the common decrying of sweatshops in the third world.
While it's true that sometimes workers are press ganged into such factories,
or that they voluntarily sign up but are later essentially enslaved, there
is certainly a large fraction that are not so enslaved.

In what sense, therefore, are the workers "taken advantage of"? They're
free at any time to go earn a different living.

The crucial obstacle to economic justice in such countries is that **(1)
they're denied equal access to natural resources (primarily agricultural
land), or (2) are not ruled by governments that would on their behalf
receive payments from those who "own" the land (for their use of it) and use
it to the benefit of the landless (by funding infrastructure, direct
compensation, educational opportunities, etc).**

The conflation of "capitalist" and "landowner" in the minds of so many
critics of nominally capitalist economies means that real solutions to these
problems will either go unapprehended, or will not receive the emphasis they
deserve.

I'm well aware, of course, that the class of people who own capital is often
indistinguishable from those that own land, but for economic purposes (as
well as the purpose of serving justice), such a distinction _must_ be made.
In a word: landowners as landowners are pure parasites, whereas owners of
capital (not including the capitalized value of land) are contributing to
socially useful production (minus a discussion, out of scope here, of things
like environmental impacts, weapons manufacturers, etc). This is a
fundamental, valid distinction that George saw but Marx didn't (or at least
didn't want to see).


.

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