Re: "Investment adviser asks if wealthy are necessary"

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:46:15 -0500, "lysander@xxxxxxxxxxx"
<lysander@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Mark M. wrote:
lysander@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
royls@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

Without state ownership people have to exert labor to extract rent
that is why it is property.

???

By definition economic rent is not produced by labor.

I know that quite well. Rent by definition is profit above normal gained
from legally granted market advantages or from the characteristics of
the land. Labor does not create rent but labor extracts rent. Just as
labor does not create gold but labor extracts gold from the mine.

Right. The user's labor earns its product, which includes the rent.
That is how the user is able to pay rent to the owner for doing
nothing.

Nonsense. Your argument says because I picked the berry I deprived the
berry from someone who says they would have had picked the berry but
did not so I should compensate. This is like saying if I buy the last
chocolate bar in the store I have to compensate all of those who claim
they would have paid the price but did not.

Rent arises from competition for sites. If there is no competition for
picking berries from a particular site, there is no rent, no exclusion,
and therefore no compensation for exclusion.

Rent does not arise from competition.

Of course it does: competition for the better sites.

It is created when lower grades of
land are put into use or the government grants a firm a market
advantage. You can have no rent in picking wild berries.

Wrong again. If one berry picking site is more advantageous than the
rest, and more than one person is competing to use it, it will yield
rent.

Your argument is if I go pick all the berries in the forest then I
must compensate those who claim they would have done that but did not.
Instead of being compensated for my labor I have to give away berries
FOR FREE to compensate those who would have picked the berries but sat
on their ass and did not.

You arguement is that once I plow the field and extract rent I must
give up a portion of the proceeds of my labor to all of those who
claim they would have plowed the field and extracted rent but did not.
That is socialism you punish the productive to give to the lazy.

Economic rent is by definition not a direct product of labor. A plowed
field is an improvement.

You still do not understand. Labor must be applied by someone for rent
to be extracted.

Right. But that someone is the user, not the owner.

A raw diamond is not produced by labor but they don't
just come up out of the ground and lie around either. You have to do
something to obtain them. The same goes for rent.

The owner does not have to do anything to obtain rent. The _user_
must labor to obtain the rent to give to the owner for doing nothing.

-- Roy L
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: "Investment adviser asks if wealthy are necessary"
    ... By definition economic rent is not produced by labor. ... Rent by definition is profit above normal gained from legally granted market advantages or from the characteristics of the land. ... berry from someone who says they would have had picked the berry but did not so I should compensate. ... This is like saying if I buy the last chocolate bar in the store I have to compensate all of those who claim they would have paid the price but did not. ...
    (sci.econ)
  • Re: "Investment adviser asks if wealthy are necessary"
    ... Without state ownership people have to exert labor to extract rent that is why it is property. ... Your argument says because I picked the berry I deprived the berry from someone who says they would have had picked the berry but did not so I should compensate. ... He can go and farm the barren land if he wants but is willing to pay to use the better land so he does. ...
    (sci.econ)
  • Re: Income from a tax on land.
    ... > Owning land that yields rent does. ... LEARN WHAT RENT MEANS. ... All wealth is produced by labor. ...
    (sci.econ)
  • Re: "Investment adviser asks if wealthy are necessary"
    ... By definition economic rent is not produced by labor. ... Rent by definition is profit above normal gained from legally granted market advantages or from the characteristics of the land. ... Just as labor does not create gold but labor extracts gold from the mine. ... If there is no competition for picking berries from a particular site, there is no rent, no exclusion, and therefore no compensation for exclusion. ...
    (sci.econ)
  • Re: Labor theory of cost
    ... Land has no cost. ... I labor LESS for the net personal benefits I ... opposed to Ricardian rent. ...
    (sci.econ)
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