Re: Euro =1.43 Dollar ->Dump monopoly money (USD), China!

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:00:45 -0400, Les Cargill wrote:

The Trucker wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:58:37 -0400, Les Cargill wrote:

The Trucker wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:05:40 -0700, david_huang2007 wrote:

On Oct 23, 2:47 am, Les Cargill <lcarg...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
david_huang2...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=3721104
<snip>

The crux of the hypocrisy is that while the US uses the WTO provisions
in order to urge China to open its financial sector to outside (read:
mainly US-based) investment, it lets other countries such as Canada or
Australia to restrict foreign ownership, in direct violation for
existing Free-trade agreements with these countries, and get away with
it. And two years ago, when we were attempting to buy a medium-side US-
based oil company you raised stench to high heaven and we had to
eventually back off. ("National security" grounds, my a$$).
No, that's about right. Mineral reserves on the ground in the US
can be governed by national security policy left over from WWII.
The sale of US natural resources is, IMHO, not an option. Talk about
eating you seed corn. If the alternative is sweat shop wages for an auto
industry that produces nothing but dirt cheap motor vehicles for Chinese
then so be it. You don't sell the damned farm.

You know what? You've been enjoying our free lunch for way too long.
Unless you learn to shut up and be humble, and stop making China into
your own scape goat, let's see what's gonna happen if we dump all our
dollar reserves and invest in the Euro. I'm sure France and Germany
are much more receptive to Chinese investment, whine less about our
environmental record (as if you implemented Kyoto!!!). And we'll see
how you'll function after we get rid of our dollar T-bonds. And with
your already falling dollar, I'd rather buy Euros anyway.
Go for it. It's headed that way anyhow. And when you take back
Euro denominated bonds in exchange for Chinese goods, what happens
to the exchange rate of the dollar and Euro?
You seem to miss the point. The currency (all currencies) are used to buy
OIL, and OIL is the standard against which all currencies are actually
measured as to value. All trades become trades for oil because oil is now
life. Without it there is simply not enough food.
There is in the US. Exports simply... stop.

I am not sure of that. The amount of oil used to fertilizer and the
amount of oil use in the mechanization of American farming is very
significant. And there must still be enough to get the stuff to the
consumers. I hope your right. But I have my doubts.


We have lots of oil available domestically. I'm pretty sure
the answer is that the exports simply stop.

So the North Slope oil now going to Japan plus all the other local
fields are enough to get us by? For how long? As I said: I have my
doubts.

When all the dust
settles it is the nations that have oil in excess that will rule the
roost.
Can they eat oil?

Actually, yes. Assuming they have enough water and sunlight they can
produce the stuff they need given plenty of oil.


Not easily. You can't just five-year-plan a whole bunch
of readily arable land. Remember too that China's traditional
agriculture is largely based on the Yangtze river.

Not relevant I don't think. And China has NO oil to speak of. And
"traditional" is for conservatives.

That sure as hell isn't China, but it is not the USA either unless
the USA militarily dominates the OPEC nations, i.e. controls the oil in
those nations. That is the REALITY. A shifty from dollars to euros as
the currency in which oil is traded is the DEATH of the Republican "create
money from thin air" economy
It's not money from thin air, it is an *ATTEMPT* to balance
between hidebound *DE*flation and the AARP's terrified phsychotic
aversion to *IN*flation. It's the Greenspan Gavotte, and it's
damn near science now.

It was obvious to me long ago. If the dollar was not devalued then the
deflation would have been a total nightmare for American workers.

More than that.

No. Not more than that.

The
cheap labor from China would have caused the deflation

No. The disappearing money supply and declining federal
deficit would have caused the deflation. Nothing
China does causes inflation nor deflation.

You think that because you are infected with neoclassical brain
disfunction. China has injected a HUGE pool of labor that will work for
slave wages into the American economy. Whether China DID IT or the
Republicans and their neoclassical pseudo science of false economics did
it is irrelevant. Labor is the real cost of everything and those falling
costs/prices will have been a massive deflation that would have crushed
American producers even worse than it has. I do not like giving credit
for ANYTHING that has happened with George Bush in the oval office and I
believe we could have done this without all the deficits and without all
the war crap. But the erosion of the dollar was a necessary evil if there
was to be trade with Asia. Of course, maybe it would be better to not
trade with Asia.

you describe and we
would be in a lot worse shape now. I hate it that Bush presided over
ANYTHING that made sense. But that part did. The tax cutting, however,
was totally unnecessary and it was just a replay of the Reagan hand out to
the rich.


Greenspan has taken pains to be critical of which tax cut was
chosen, but he's clear that it's the "surplus" that was the
problem. Which, unfortunately, makes all the ragging on Bush about
fiscal mismanagement moot. That is the principal mistake Gore
made.

I don't see how you can say that. Nor can I see why the same sort of
thing could not have been accomplished by totally middle class tax cuts
and infrastructure spending as opposed to invading other nations. Putting
more money into circulation isn't a problem. Just purchase T-bills and
don't buy any more of em. That puts plenty of money in the economy. And
if the people refuse to spend the money then you start building major
infrastructure. There is absolutely nothing that says money must draw
interest. T-bills are just money that draws interest.

> and the death of the "free ride" for America.
The Republicans got us here. There is no easy way out. They and their
rightarded cronies will proclaim (hav proclaimed) a "religious war" in
order to steal the resources of the OPEC nations. The American public is
actually aware of this, but they choose to ignore it and drive their SUV's.

*Sigh*. Not now. "steal the resources"... feh.

Fated to die? How so?


Sorry, I lost you there.

<pins>
--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org/extend

.

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