Re: Can We Bury Supply-Side Economics Now? It Doesn't Work!

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 03:58:21 -0800, zzbunker wrote:

On Nov 20, 12:41 pm, phil scott <p...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Nov 19, 11:48 pm, The Trucker <mik...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:38:08 -0800, James wrote:
Tax cuts for the wealthy were supposed to trickle down and generate
production and jobs, grow the middle class, and ultimately increase
government revenues.

In reality supply-side economics show that tax cuts for the wealthy
are the least efficient form of economic stimulus there is. It is
terribly inefficient as much of the capital is either left stagnant in
the wealthy's bank accounts, hedge funds, derivatives or anyplace
other than investing in new factories.

The other facet of Bush-ism is private industry is always right and
government regulators are always wrong. Leave business be and
everything will be alright. This hands-off philosophy allowed mortgage
lenders to go hog wild -- without government regulation mortgage
lenders went nuts and gave us no-doc liar loans, negative amortization
and created opaque CDO's to hide subprime paper in.

The failure of free-market economics is that it assumes private
interests always invest rationally. They don't. Inevitably greed takes
over and supply-side eats its young. Worse, unregulated business
creates overextended credit arrangements that inevitably collapses in
on itself.

Paging John Maynard Keynes to the white phone, please....

While the entire tax cuts for the rich stuff is total hokum and merely a
way to secure very large gout's of campaign funding for the Republican
party (and lately for the Democratic party as well), I do not wish a
return of Keynes. The new reality is that money is infinite and that
there is no such thing as a need to borrow it or any need for the rich
(who have it) to do any "investing" at all. It is entirely possible for
groups of people to decide to start a factory and get it funded by a
latter day bank. The money just gets created from nowhere and on we go.
There was, at one time, this Glass-Steagall deal that said you couldn't do
that and there was this other thing that said if you started a war then
you had to raise taxes to cover the costs. None of that silly crap exists
any more. You call up the Fed and tell em to save the economy by printing
up money and giving it to the hucksters that already created the credit
for it. Why do we need to raise taxes for health care if we don't need to
raise taxes to support a war?


here is my reply to the broader question from another thread.

from another Ng.\

Academic finance journals have zillions of articles which invent all
kinds of things of this sort, based on some hairbrained theories and
ideas.

its a goods and food production issue... when the bogus alchemy
starves out the working class, collapse ensues... how starved?
history is rife with examples...

the mess goes on as long there is any sinue in the working class, even
as their children starve, the working class must work to live... the
leach class knows this full well... so it does not end until so many
in the productive class die off that production falls below what it
takes to maintain empire... then the empire collapses....

"Foundation" series -- Isaak Asimov

recovery takes at least 1 or 2 generations, sometimes 3 as in china
the last time, russia may recover in a bit over 1 generation due to
their educated working and professional class and built up resistance
to bogus govt.

It probably takes longer than that.

evolution? thats a solution that occurs deep into the starvation
phase. ..not prior to that for a wide range of reasons, despite red
neck bluster to the contrary.

"neck bluster"?? I'm not sure what that means but I think it is probably
a jab at my extended House of Representatives address of the issue you are
raising. And the primary reason that you believe the extended
representation will never work is because you believe the American people
are too complacent and too lazy to make it happen. You may be right, but
I want it to be there and be understood and to have a plan to get where we
need to go. If for no other reason to slow the incremental nature of our
current downfall. A plan to reinstate a true republican form of government
may give these people pause that they would not otherwise have.

How fast can it happen in the US? If the dollar looses its
leverage, oil import will cease, fuel will become unaffordable, farms
and the economy will fall back to bare subsistence levels,
uncontrollable riots in the streets will decimate govt and its ability
to govern or protect US interests here and abroad... it could happen
fast for those reasons.. in days.

And if it happens we must be ready with some plan other than imperialistic
totalitarianism. When I think about it, we'd better put the proper
government together NOW; before the FAKE attack on the power grid.

Our well earned enemies know
this full well... do not wish to decimate their largest customer...but
easily could on a wide range of vectors our CIA has brainstormed and
been discussing since 911 and earler. (I had dinner back then with
an executive in one of the largest west coast utilities, he said CIA
teams were meeting with them for months looking for weak links etc...
summary..they are wide open and no way in hell to prevent 6 month grid
failures...none...not the faintest chance.... cost to trigger the
failure. about 13 cents... from dozens of perimeters radius 2
miles....a good percentage of the utility staff were green cards from
the middle east...the vulnerabilities completely exposed.)

Why is it not obvious that the people you claim are the "enemy" really
have no interest in harming us other than to force us to get to hell out
of their sovereignties and their lives and to leave them alone. The real
enemy is the people you have described here to fore. Those who want to be
the imperial aristocrats and to lord it over the masses. That is also
what Bin Laden is.

our US govt knows this full well.. and that may be what is behind such
a ruthless display of force in the middle east today... wrong solution
though... you can never defeat an indigionus guerilla force from fixed
bases... no way to target them.. yet one remains fully
targetable.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! The last thing in the world that the Bush
Republicans want is to _WIN_ the "war" on terror or the "war" in Iraq.
Without "war" they are nothing.

you can though behave insanely enough, that the enemy backs off in
horror at what y9u might do....

Apocalypse Now. Fight terror with terror. May as well get it right: It
is really "fight stupidity with equal or greater stupidity".

that may be GWB's plan.... still wont
work, indiginous guerilla's always have the upper hand in the final
analysis... one must learn to be civil or go to ruins.. these can wait
you out, and take nit picks too small to warrant a general nuclear
attack by govt on the parts of NYC they live in.... the algorithm
is well understood by everyone but the criminal idiots running the US
govt it seems.

Again you miss the boat. You started out correctly in that the objective
is always the subjugation of the masses. The people that "run the US
government" are definitely criminal. And they may also be idiots. But
the idiocy is totally self serving. The CURRENT Republican order is
founded on the fear and hatred of the "terrrrrrrrrrrrrists". These people
will continue to create more and more "terrrrrrrrists" because that is
their life's blood. They have absolutely no desire whatsoever to _end_
the fear and hostility.


thier chosen fix of course is 40 millon illegal mexicans that can be
worked to death cheap.. wonderful, we didnt need all those educated
high priced americans anyway, the manufacturing can just be moved ot
china.

We are that nation full of morons that have tolerated this.. many of
us saying 'well we will keep the high end engineering, management and
banking...and ship the dirty work off shore'... of course we are
loosing the rest now too.

That was their first mistake. They get NASA engineering,
and that's all they kept.

The mistake is made by the American People who somehow think that there
will be any jobs left for them to do. Now that isn't all bad, because
rational people don't really want to have no stinkin "job" in the sense
that this term is currently used. The real problem is that the people
can't seem to think of any other way to acquire an income. I can't
either. In order to pursue this issue I will, FOR THE SAKE OF
ILLUSTRATION ONLY, dehumanize these "40 million Mexicans" and see them as
"robots". I repeat that this is for illustration only and that I do
not subscribe to this ideology. If we have 40M robots to do all the real
work then we the people can simply divide up the remaining work so that we
only need to work 20 Hrs a week and yet we will all have enough income to
get by quite nicely. We have robots to do all the infrastructure
maintenance (with part time overseers of course), and to cut the lawn and
put on new roof when needed and to clean the house and all the rest. These
robots also reproduce and they are self maintaining. When they are fully
depreciated or when they "fail" we throw them in the landfill. Oh such a
deal. I want it understood that I do not subscribe to this heinous
ideology and that there are probably very few Imperial Republicans that
fully subscribe to it. Yet it is the very real picture of a society that
preaches "go forth and multiply" and "open borders for those who go forth
and multiply", while not providing for the health, education, and
opportunity for what is being pro-created (or imported). If the imported
"workers" do not have the same opportunity as the rest then they are
naught but robots. And the truth is that the current Imperial Republicans
actually see everyone who is not an Imperial Republican as a slave or a
robot. Or more accurately a weak minded semi-human that can be fooled by
ridiculous bull*** like "Jobs that Americans won't do", and stupidities
such as "labor shortage". The real hope for humanity lies in the
rapacious greed of the true Imperial Republicans; their inability to share
even with the overseers. As "Supply Side" economics has unfolded the work
week has actually gotten longer and the wages have gotten smaller. It may
be fair to say that imported robots are not part of "supply side"
economics buy this becomes irrelevant. Every rubber ruler measuring stick
of greed is employed to falsely illustrate the success of "supply side",
Laffer Curve, Reaganomics. Whether we are experiencing the results of
"supply side" failure, or globalization, or open borders, or rays from
Mars is irrelevant. Because what we are experiencing is really the result
of Imperial Republicanism that wears every stinkin one of these hats.


and medicine? ah yes.. no pay from out of work americans it
seems..others like myself geting teeth fixed in Mexico (world class
work and faciltieis btw)... no job. no money for that.. and no taxie
taxie for govt. these are insane of course. you see..they have a
job...

one time I owned em a few bucks... the girlie said in total
surprise..'well why dont you just go the bank/ dont you have a
checking account?"

no clue you see.......... not even a trace of the faintest cloo.

these too will will be out of work after govt goes broke...broke
because it has crushed its own tax base. smart, those folks. I
suppose then if the dingbat gets hungry she can just stop by a
restaurant.. no?

In russia, even today, these are selling themselves into the sex
slave markets. ..there have been a few 60 minutes programs on that
subject... thats what happens when govt crushes its own tax base.

You are simply describing the Imperial Republican Nirvana.


--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org/extend

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