Re: Socialism

Les Cargill wrote:

There are two arguments against socialism, any socialism of any stride:

Stripe, actually.

1) It's immoral, because what's mine is mine.

Mindlessly silly. That line means that there should be no taxation at all, even for the very basic stuff.

2) It's impractical, because you will most likely be better off without it than with it.

The most credible argument against socialism is that it
doesnt work as well as the main alternative, particularly
when it extends to govt ownership of car companys etc.

And an even more important point is that ALL modern first
world countrys are a mix of socialism and capitalism, even
the US. Medicare and social security are the two most
obvious examples of socialism in the US.

Even HongKong before it was handed back to china had a little
bit of socialism, particularly care for the elderly and destitute etc.

These are really the same thing.

Nope, and they both miss the point completely anyway.

Both describe a state of forced negative externality.

You havent established that the voters choosing to have the
govt do something like education is a 'forced negative externality'

Both reduce to "subsidy reduces economic efficiency".

Mindlessly superficial. There's always some subsidys in any modern first world economy.

But we now depend on being able to produce things that other people desire in order to have money.

Modern first world economys are about a hell of a lot more than just that.

As technology grows in scope and power, fewer and fewer make more and more.

Thats just plain wrong with modern first world economys.

Have fun explaining how come the US unemployment rate bottomed
at 4.x% with the highest participation rate thats ever been seen
historically, with a massive level of legal and illegal immigration.

We have a purely "demand side" economy

Thats just plain wrong too, the most it is is dominated by the demand side.

- any increment in supply won't have a positive multiplier on efficiency

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt.

( and you thought I was a Laffer curve guy - well, so far as it goes....) but it's very clear that top-line sales are
increasingly the *only* thing. We've pushed so much "air" out of most production processes that it's become somewhat
like Dell's model - 100% JIT, as if it were a short-order hamburger.

Only in some areas. Nothing like it with most of the services
that completely dominate all modern first world economys now.

If goods become almost purely nonrival

That never happens.

- the cost differential of two is almost zero with respect to one - then of what practical use is non-socialism?

It generally works a lot more efficiently than the socialist alternative.

Not always tho.

The only real function of price is to determine optimum levels of production.

Utterly mangled all over again.

It is about flow control,

Nope, particularly not with the latest technology.

and possibly an input into a finance model. But you can
almost dispense with money in that case, can't you?

Nope.

I think this is in the process of happening right now.

You're wrong, most obviously with crude oil.

But it's not redistributionist in a conscious way, it's "capitalism (not the state) shall wither away."

How odd that it never ever has.

And when its been drastically stamped out, those
economys work much more badly than where it hasnt.

It's a sort of "socialism without the force and without the Utopian impulse",

Like hell it is.

for lack of a better phrase. As usual, Marx was 180 degrees wrong, in an interesting and very useful way.

Nope. Not useful or interesting, actually.

The leaves rent. And rent alone.

Like hell it does.

And we don't, as a species, generally understand rent.

Economists certainly dont.

So we'll see more and more error creating more and more havoc until we do.

Yeah, yeah, until we see the light, we're all doomed.

Where have I heard that before ?

We will increase rents and subsidies like Buster Keaton in one of his complicated pratfalls, trying manfully to stay
stable.

And we will fail until we do.

Mindlessly superficial.


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