Re: bridging the gap between rich and poor

On Mar 30, 11:27 am, AZDuffman <srduffy1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 27, 4:58 pm, Walt <wka...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



If you are on minimum wage you have no business raising
a family.

I would need to see some conclusive evidence and reasoning to support
the taking away of the basic human right to start a family from
people.

No one is taking the "right" to start a family away from anyone.

If someone's income doesn't allow them to support a family decently,
they have effectively lost the right to start a family.

But
if you are only skilled enough to sweep floors, you do not have the
"right" to be paid $15/hr to do so just because you want to start a
family.

Economic systems exist to serve human beings. Human beings do not
exist to serve economic systems. The day may come when robots/
automation are more intelligent and can perform any task better than
any human being. If that day should could, do you think it proper
that the human race should cease to exist?

This is like people saying "health care is a right" when they
really mean "FREE health care is a right."  Which it is not.

The health care issue illustrates how it's false to equate being pro-
regulation with being anti-market. Government regulation is needed to
bring market forces to bear on health care. The anti-competitive
practices of the AMA and others need to be prohibited. Regulations
are needed to make sure health care consumers have the information
they need to make informed choices.

Obviously there is no such thing as free health care. Somebody has to
pay for it, it's just a question of who.

Even if you're completely unsentimental about it, it's just practical
to give people a reasonable chance to have basic, decent living
conditions. If somebody's kid dies because they're unable obtain
medical care, that person is likely to become a major loose cannon.
The cost of preventing or dealing with the damage that such loose
cannons will collectively do is much more than the cost of giving
people a reasonable chance to live decently.


A big reason why life is better now than in the 1800s is that we now
understand that private companies should be forced by the government
to pay for any social costs associated with their business
activities.  If a plant is going to cause harmful pollution, for
example, it should pay a tax that represents a fair compensation for
the harm to society the pollution does.  If that means the plant is
not economically viable, it should not operate, period.  Of course,
it's anything but straight-forward to figure out what fair
compensation for net social costs is.

Irrelevant to the valus of labor and productivity.  A big reason we
live better now is we are more productive.  If say I have a big, meat
plant and install new saws the limit the need for workers by 10% then
I can pay the remaining workers more.  In fact I may have to if the
new machine requires more skill to operate.  Now, I won't give them
the full 10% but they will get something because it is worth it to me
to pay more if it can reduce turnover costs.

When companies pay people too little money to live decently and with
some dignity, there is a social cost to that.  It causes crime and
other social problems.  Rather than tax companies that pay non-living
wages, it probably makes more sense to simply require them to pay a
living wage.

You cannot force someone to pay more than something is worth and
expect them to stay in busienss.  If I am a small-town mayor I'd
rather have a big employer paying minimum wage than nothing.

What is your definition of worth? What people are willing to pay for
something? In Economics 101 you learn that what people are willing to
pay for something is a decreasing function of supply. It is not a
fixed value.

The more general issue is when and how much anti-competitive collusion
between suppliers is it desirable to permit. For example, the
government could make laws to reduce vertical integration, or prohibit
labor unions. But there are reasons to think such measures might do
more harm than good. The minimum wage is the result of the collusion
of all the workers in the entire society, demanding a minimal level of
pay.

If you own a business, and one of your costs goes up for both you and
your competitors, that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll go out of
business. It depends on how elastic the demand for your product is.


Better to teach the following:

1. Get a High School Diploma
2. Don't have kids out of wedlock
3. Wait until age 20 to get married

These sorts of problems are not primarily caused by a lack of
education.  We need both the carrot and the stick.  More chances for
people to get ahead and have some dignity.  Fix the Criminal Justice
system so it's fair but can't be gamed, and there is a real effort at
rehabilitation.

The criminal justice system is for punishment, not rehabilitation.

That's as silly as saying that all medical care is an absolute right.
Consider three options:

1) Let people out of jail when you think they've been punished
enough, regardless of whether they're still dangerous, meaning many
will commit new crimes.
2) Keep people in jail until they are not dangerous, till they die if
necessary.
3) Keep people in jail until they've been punished enough and are not
dangerous, and provide reasonable help to them to cease to be
dangerous.

Probably # 1 is the most expensive option, and # 3 is the least
expensive option. Our current criminal justice system is closest to #
1.

.

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