Re: Marriage is under fire!!

From: andy (news4_at_earthsong.free-online.co.uk)
Date: 08/16/04 

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:12:52 +0100

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 06:55:42 +0000, Kevin Aylward wrote:

> andy wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 13:50:00 +0000, Kevin Aylward wrote:
>>
>>> andy wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 06:40:05 +0000, Kevin Aylward wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> andy wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> that carries a
>>>>>>>> whole load of other associations beyond just the idea that
>>>>>>>> people's character and behaviour is a product of both their
>>>>>>>> genetic inheritance and later social influences.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh? Just what piece of magic, other than the hardware and
>>>>>>> software programming of humans do you think is relevant to
>>>>>>> humans?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only escape, excluding magic, from classical determinism for
>>>>>>> all of human behaviour, is quantum uncertainty. However, a random
>>>>>>> trait generator, is by definition, random, therefore an "I" can
>>>>>>> have no control over it. Any non-random control, is the result of
>>>>>>> prior memes and genes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, what else do you actually suggest, again excluding magic?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> what do you mean by magic that you insist on excluding it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything that isn't a part of mass-energy physics.
>>>>
>>>> That just seems ignorant to me
>>>
>>> Not at all. This process actually works.
>>
>> It works by, whenever something is explained scientifically which was
>> previously understood as magic, then it is no longer magic, and any
>> earlier approaches to understanding that thing are relegated to
>> 'primitive superstition'. Which is alright in a way, except for the
>> way that until that happens, scientists have a tendency to invest far
>> more energy than is really justified into rubbishing any competing
>> explanations of things that they consider within their realm of
>> understanding, simply because they draw on conceptual frameworks
>> which don't easily fit the current scientific understanding of things.
>>
>> One example is asian medical traditions like acupuncture and shiatsu.
>> I suffer from some mental health problems which are mostly around
>> excessive fearfulness/paranoia. In chinese medicine, the emotion of
>> fear is seen as related to the kidney meridian, which runs from the
>> big toe up the inside of your legs, and then up the sides of the
>> chest. 'Kidney chi weakness' is also the diagnosis I've had when I've
>> been to see traditional chinese practitioners. One way to balance
>> this out is simply to do exercises which involve stretching the
>> inside leg muscles, and massaging the kidney area. I've tried this
>>
>
> Ahmmm...this is way to vague to make any conclusions.

It's only one example out of a whole medical tradition.

>> and it actually works for me,
>>but because the theory behind these
>> treatments is put in a conceptual framework which is foreign to
>> western medicine, many scientists seem to want to rubbish that whole
>> medical tradition just because it uses a language that makes no sense
>> to them.
>
> Its not because the language makes no sense, its because there isn't a
> theory here at all.

There is a theory - that human health is related to circulation/movement
of an energy (bad word to use because of the western scientific
connection) called chi, that this takes different forms which are
concentrated in a series of pathways called meridians, that the activation
of these meridians varies in a cyclical way which is described by the five
elements theory, that it is possible to diagnose energy imbalances using
various methods, etc. It's just that most of the theoretical terms, and
the signs and symptoms connected with them, can't easily be translated
into western scientific terms. 

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