Re: Did low voltage cause the pc to fail?
From: James Sweet (jamessweet_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 08/22/04
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Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 02:06:47 GMT
"Bob Myers" <nospamplease@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:ls8Vc.8407$%E4.1373@news.cpqcorp.net...
>
> "Ban" <bansuri@web.de> wrote in message
> news:F_6Vc.159362$5D1.7729135@news4.tin.it...
> > Your ignorance is really showing up. If the specs are not met, that
supply
> > goes back on guarantee and it eventually will drive this supplyer out of
> > business. In Europe we have now a 2years guarantee by law and believe it
> or
> > not, when a part fails because of undervoltage the seller has to take it
> > back and repair/replace it.
>
> So if it fails within that 2 year period, great; do you believe
> that all suplies which fail due to an undervolt condition are
> within their warranty period? Or that simply because a
> failure DOES occur within the warranty period, that this
> MUST be indicative of a sufficiently widespread problem such
> that the supplier WILL be "driven out of business?"
>
> Again, if your model is correct, power supplies that don't meet
> spec should never be found in the real world. I claim that
> such things do, in fact, exist. Care to bet which of us can
> support their position through evidence?
>
> As to "my ignorance really showing" up, you're right - after
> 25+ years as an engineer working for one of the major
> computer companies, I clearly don't know squat about the
> realities of the electronics manufacturing business.
>
> > > Both Intel-generated specifications exist, and UL standards
> > > exist. And so, according to you, everything ever
> > > designed and built automatically complies with those
> > > standards? Hallelujah! I can call down to the test lab
> > > right now, and tell those guys to take it easy! There's
> > > nothing more for them to do!!!!
> > >
> >
> > It is a criminal offense if UL-specs are not met, and if any personal
> injury
> > happens you will pay big bucks.
>
> Actually, it isn't, although that is a widespread misconception.
> The UL standards do not carry the force of law, nor is there
> any law making it a criminal offense to sell a product which is
> not UL certified or registered. UL compliance can and will
> enter into liability awards resulting from failed products, but
> that is a civil issue, not a criminal one. Further, simply obtaining
> UL certification basically just says that, IF built as designed
> from the specified components, the product can reasonably be
> expected to meet the specification in question. The nature
> of testing and statistics being what it is, this can never be a
> perfect assurance of 100% compliance, unless the product in
> question is subjected to extensive finished-product testing
> in 100% of the units shipped. Especially for consumer goods,
> this is basically never the case, with the exception of a few
> key specifications. And no testing can ever be a 100%
> guarantee of continued compliance for all time, for the reasons
> mentioned earlier having to do with aging, electrical and
> mechanical stress, and so forth.
>
> > There is a responsability involved and if
> > you fake the CE or UL or whatever rules apply in your country, you will
be
> > prosecuted.
>
> Yes, but that's not what's being discussed here. Forging
> a UL mark is irrelevant to the topic under consideration, which
> is the reliability and failure modes of power supplies.
>
>
> > Mr Meyer, you must be one of those bean counters. What a stupid and
> arrogant
> > commentary. The consumer has a lot of laws on his side and especially in
> the
> > US you better not deliver any sub-spec mercendise declared as being ok.
If
> > you buy at the surplus store or Ebay, you might end up with what you are
> > descibing, but this stuff is not guaranteed meeting the specs.
>
> Nope; I am not now, nor have I ever been, a "bean counter."
> It is simply a fact of life that NOT all products shipped will
> meet their published specifications 100%, and those which do
> will not continue to do so forever. Again, if you feel otherwise,
> please call up the head of our service and support organization, and
> inform them that everyone can go home now.
>
> What published specifications really mean, from a legitimate supplier,
> is that IF the product delivered does not meet the specifications
> (which generally can be considered as being a part of the purchase
> agreement - i.e., you did not agree to buy THIS product, but instead
> you actually agreed to buy a product which met these specifications),
> then you have the right to return it and expect a replacement. But
> simply publishing the specifications by no means is perfect assurance
> that every product shipped/received WILL actually meet its specs
> when it reaches the customer. SOMETIMES, this is due to shoddy
> design and/or manufacturing - but even the best manufacturer in the
> world for whatever product you're considering still has the occasional
> failure-upon-delivery. Welcome to the real world.
>
> Bob M.
>
>
I think anyone who actually works on real world products will quickly come
to this same conclusion. Like it or not, there's a lot of pure garbage that
ends up on store shelves. For every well designed piece of equipment I work
on, I come across at least half a dozen things that make me want to find the
engineer who designed it and smack them over the head with the thing.
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