Re: Getting into the field.


Greg Hansen wrote:
David L. Jones wrote:
glhansen@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

I wonder if some engineers out there might help with some advice on
getting into the field.

I have a degree in physics and research experience in experimental
physics, which the physics rags have always told me was the cat's meow.
But employers don't seem very interested in that. I'm considering
taking some undergrad level courses on control theory and
microcontrollers, without going for a whole new degree. I'd be aiming
for the controls engineer type of market. And I'd appreciate some
opinions on what a hiring manager would think about that sort of thing.


A (smart) hiring manager is only going to care about two things:
1) Can you do the job. i.e, do you have the practical experience.
2) Do they like you.

Most of the time qualifications don't mean squat in this industry.

Occasionally they overlook #2 if you have #1

Forget the undergrad courses, unless you think that's the only way you
can get the practical skills required.

Plenty of microcontroller kits out there, go buy one and start building
stuff.

Dave :)


Here's a problem I see-- I buy a microcontroller kit and start building
stuff, and tell an employer that I bought a microcontroller kit and
built stuff. But how does he verify that? How does he verify the
quality of my work, or that I put together some non-trivial projects?

They don't necessarily need to verify it, just like no employer ever
goes and checks that you actually completed your degree. That's why a
smart employer will grill you in the interview with technical
questions, ask you to solve problems, draw circuits, explain stuff.

It is *incredibly easy* to tell if someone knows their stuff with a few
choice questions.

If you know your stuff you'll do it easy, if you don't know then you'll
choke - doesn't matter what qualifications you have.

Sure it helps if you can prove stuff, and there are many ways to do
this. Getting something published helps, set up a website detailing
your work, or bring your work into the interview and show them.

Coursework at least documents a minimum set of skills and experience.

Not really, it only documents that you were able to pass the course by
whatever means necessary.

I once had a guy come into an interview with his thesis project
documentation. I grilled him on it and hew couldn't answer a single one
of my simple questions on his own project, he was clueless. It was fine
documentation (he must have paid someone?), but he didn't know a thing,
so he didn't get the job.

If I think from an employer's perspective, someone who claims to be
self-studied could have done little more than skim a book. I've studied
control theory in the course of doing my physics, but nobody seems to
have been very impressed by that.

That's because you only studied it, you didn't do any real practical
work.
Smart employers care about what stuff you have actually designed, built
and worked on.

School labs are also better equipped than my basement.

Sure, but that doesn't make the difference you think it might. You can
do a hell of a lot with a CRO, meter, and soldering iron at home.

I was told by another person that engineers hire engineers with
engineering degrees, not someone who's taken a few courses. They're
quite selective about that, I was just told.

Then you were told wrong. Smart engineers hire people who can do the
job.
For a graduate with nothing else to show, the course might be
important, but for an experiened person in the real world it couldn't
be further from the truth. Your qualifications pale into insignificance
once you have experience.

Am I to believe that I
should give up hope of being hired as an engineer unless I have a full
degree in engineering, or that I would become employable as an engineer
after dinking around in my basement for a while?

No, not at all, you just need practical experience. You already have a
degree, combine that with some practical hands on experience and you'll
be fine.
Engineering is certainly one field were you do not really need formal
qualifications.

I'm talking about private industry here BTW, Government jobs etc
usually have strict requirements.

I'm just not sure what is expected.

Experience!

Dave :)

.

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