Re: Latest News

From: Tom Seim (soar2morrow_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 11/22/04 

Date: 21 Nov 2004 18:07:34 -0800

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message news:<41A059D8.582@armory.com>...
> Tom Seim wrote:
> >
> > "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message news:<419EC733.56E7@armory.com>...
> > > Mark Fergerson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > R. Steve Walz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >>> That's what I was trying to tell RSW. It's approaching
> > > > >>> the situation with royalty in the U.K. and other countries
> > > > >>> that maintain them for show.
> > > >
> > > > I can see a day when those genetically predisposed to
> > > > excessive wealth acquisition are kept in elaborately gilded
> > > > cages, smirkingly waited upon hand and foot and bowed and
> > > > scraped to, just to keep them out of everyone else's way.
> > > > Come to think of it, it's already happening...
> > > --------------------------------
> > > All it takes is to make theft of all types illegal and unfair wealth
> > > acquisition simply won't be allowed. If these idiots want to work
> > > every hour of every day so that they have no time to enjoy what they
> > > earn, and they can buy unperishable wealth items of value that they
> > > have no time to enjoy, they should probably be made to see a pshrink.
> >
> > Ok, what's the maximum wealth that you would permit?
> ---------------
> No owning land, democratic control

Is your government elected or appointed?

of all land except residential.
> Everyone is entitled to own their home and compound. No sale of
> homes, only trade straight across through the aegis of the State
> if one desires to relocate.
>
> No owning corporate factories or any industrial equipment except
> what you can pursue on your residential compound. No owning stocks
> or bonds, no savable money, all exchange is in terms of labor hours

So you are going to dismantle the monetary system.

> rendered to the State for basic commodities and consumer items.
> All grown and made products are rendered to the State for their
> agreed labor hours credit amortized over the whole of each product.
>
> If it takes a total of 300 labor hours to make 3000 widgets from
> materials mined or harvested to parts composing it, to the final
> assemblage, then each costs a tenth of an hour. Unless crippled,
> veryone is required to work the democratically agreed minimum hours
> to meet basic needs or else they don't eat and it is illegal to even
> feed them.

>From each according to their abilities, to each according to their
needs.
 
>
> If they want more they sign up for more labor hours over their
> minimum, with which to buy consumer items. The only wealth that
> would even be possible is in personal property. Used items can be
> freely traded at weekly local flea markets.
>
> The State mandates that repair parts be available indefinitely for
> anything at cost.

How are you going to set costs without a monetary system? Who pays to
maintain an inventory of spare? How do you account for the inevitable
loses incurred on providing spares "at cost"?

 If you can make something the rest of us want on
> your compound then you can petition to work at home, and be paid for
> supplies and tools as well, but otherewise you work at a publically
> owned factory or farm.
>
> If you want something and can find enough other people who do you
> can get the State to assign labor credit to anyone who wants to make
> that item at an agreed exchange rate based on how long other skilled
> workers in similar fields agree it would cost in hours of labor.

So the State decides what will be produced.

>
> Everything of this sort is decided locally at the Society meeting
> twice a week by whomever shows up to do it. People are lenient
> with each other because they want support for their own desires
> as well.
>
> You order things before they are produced, and they aren't produced
> for your order unless you order them.

So mass production is gone. And, along with it, low-priced goods.
Products will be hand made at very high cost. Take you average car.
How can you organize a supply chain when your "vendors" have no idea
what quantities you will be ordering? And when you do order, the
vendors will have to supply the parts at cost.

> If we all decide we have enough
> stuff for a month or two, we go home and pursue our hobbies after our
> minimum hour jobs until enough people want new things. They literally
> arrange with others who ALSO want more "stuff" to make it for one
> another, via the computerized ordering system

Forget about computers - this is an extremely heavily capitalized
industry that will be vaporized by your system.

> between factories that
> records all orders for manufacture and all labor hour credit. High
> ticket items can be partly paid in advance by labor and partly by
> promised future labor, time payment out of your wage to save storage
> costs. If you don't work the hours, you forfeit the item till you
> do.
>
> All this can be done quite locally in terms of a govt of perhaps
> only 5000 people

What size population are you talking about? It takes 5000 people just
to issue Social Security checks when all steps in the process are
considered.

 either at public meetings or over the Net. Larger
> governance are done via the Net or by study committees that report
> back to everyone for grassroots approval.
>
> -Steve