Re: advice on selecting new PCB design package


Well, DJ beat me to the punch! I was going to also ask for specifics
from Lukas. Thanks, DJ! Getting specific info (instead of
generalized grousing) helps the developers know what users want. We
are always interested in specific, actionable suggestions & bug
reports. We can't do much with general complaints.

Dave Boland <NODARNSPAMdboland9@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[ ... major snip! .. ]
: What the gEDA community needs to do is to make it
: easier to learn and use. Not that it is hard, and Stuart's
: Circuit Cellar articles will help -- even if they are a year
: old (which I find hard to believe, but I'll take DJ at his
: word).

Actually, it's true -- I wrote the articles appearing in March & April
CC during the spring of 2005. Since they are long, and are meant to
run back-to-back, CC had a hard time scheduling them -- hence the
delay. In the meantime, PCB has changed considerably. In particular,
it got a GTK-based GUI. Then, DJ and company entirely refactored (and
rewrote) the code to allow for installation of any arbitrary GUI.

Nonetheless, the articles are still very useful, since the way you
drive the software hasn't changed -- only the look of the GUI. The
point behind the articles was exactly what you asked for: "GEDA for
dummies".

: The final aspect to productivity is feature set. After all,
: if it can't do the job it isn't productive. This is a
: marketing question more than technical or usability. My
: sense is that gEDA should aim for the market sweet spot
: which I suppose is something like:
: * Cross section of 4S4P

4 routing layers & 4 plane layers? Check.

: * Size of double EuroCard (forget these dimensions)

PCB supports unlimited board size.

: * Nodes numbering into 2048, perhaps higher

Check.

: * Schematic capture,

Gschem. Present on gEDA Suite Install CD.
http://geda.seul.org/download.html

: layout,

PCB. Present on gEDA Suite Install CD.
http://geda.seul.org/download.html

: spice,

Ngspice, gnucap. Present on gEDA Suite Install CD.
http://geda.seul.org/download.html

: electrical analysis of stripline/microstrip

Wcalc. Present on gEDA Suite Install CD.
http://geda.seul.org/download.html

: 3D view of layout.

Well, we don't do this. Kicad does:

http://www.lis.inpg.fr/realise_au_lis/kicad/

Personally, I am skeptical of the utility of this feature, unless you
also have a 3D CAD program and are designing a major system. GEDA is
useful at the low to mid-level market spot. This means 6U Eurocards,
test boards, single boards for instrumentation, 4 or 6 layer embedded
computer boards, PC-104 stuff, etc. Nothing offering a major
mechanical challenge.

If you are desinging major rack-based systems and have a mechanical
engineering team worried about mechanical interferences, you are in a
different league. Buy a few seats of Mentor ViewDraw/Expedition and
SolidWorks if you're really doing the big stuff. Just MHO.

: Listed these in
: order of importance to me. Not a big fan of autorouters.

: To re-cap, gEDA needs to be more productive, which means
: easier to learn/use with a common and consistent user
: interface, moderate feature set.

Ummm, please download it and give it a try, then let us know what is
not easy to learn/use. Again, specific observations are appreciated.
We can't do anything with general complaints ("easier to learn/use").

: On to a few other issues. Top of this list is W I N D O W S
: version!!! I'm not a great fan of Windows, but it is on
: over 85% of technical desktops. This is a market ripe for
: the picking. You will need that familiar/consistent U.I.
: and a setup program along with (my words) "gEDA for
: Dummies". This is a lot of work, but who says you have to
: give it away. If you can make the Windows user more
: productive with gEDA than Eagle, then charge for it, or for
: support.

Unless somebody picks up the ball, this probably won't happen. GEDA
is -- and will likely remain -- an open-source/free-software effort.
That means that it is produced by volunteers who do it for fun, and
because they use the tools themselves for board design/circuit
simulation/what4ever. None of the current developers are interested
in a Windows port.

As for making money with it, somebody else pointed out that the EDA
market is in the doldrums, which I am well aware of since I read EE
Times too. Accordingly, I don't see room for yet another
commercial low-to-mid level board design suite. GEDA is an
open-source project which works quite well, and is gaining traction
with folks who are Linux/open-source adept, and appreciate the fact
that it is freely available for download at no cost. Since engineers
tend to be smart, Linux adept, & able to figure things out, learning
to use gEDA should be straightforward and fun for them. That is,
Engineers are *exactly* the right audience for an open-source EDA
project. OTOH, trying to turn it into yet another commercial product
is a non-starter. Just MHO.

Of course, if we got a call from a VC who wanted to fund something,
we wouldn't immediately hang up the phone on them . . . . ;-)

: Finally, work with someone to get a Knoppix (or other Linux
: LiveCD) to include the full gEDA suite. Again, more work.

See above. I do know that there is some user interest in a
Knoppix-style live CD. I am the one who did the install CD with the
Python-based install wizard. I am too busy -- and not interested
enough -- to spin a live CD. This project awaits a new volunteer.
Meanwhile, you can always download the install CD and just install the
gEDA Suite on any old Linux box you have laying around. If you don't
have any Linux boxes available, and are unwilling to build one, then
perhaps gEDA isn't for you anyway. :-)

Stuart
.