Re: Color CCD sensor with support hardware wanted
From: Nautilus (reply_in_newsgroup_thanks_at_example.com)
Date: 08/09/04
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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 02:27:31 GMT
On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 16:23:17 GMT, "Roger Hamlett"
<rogerspamignored@ttelmah.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Graham W" <graham@his.com.puter.INVALID> wrote in message
>news:41160610$0$527$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>
>> "Nautilus" <reply_in_newsgroup_thanks@example.com> wrote in message
>> news:6eKdneT1Ku-UPojcRVn-tA@comcast.com...
>> > On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 04:02:15 +0100, "Graham W"
>> > <graham@his.com.puter.INVALID> wrote:
>> >
>> > >Nautilus wrote:
>> > >> On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:53:36 GMT, "Roger Hamlett"
>> > >> <rogerspamignored@ttelmah.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "Nautilus" <reply_in_newsgroup_thanks@example.com> wrote in
>message
>> > >>> news:4NmdnT_XA6EPxYncRVn-pw@comcast.com...
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Is there any Color CCD sensor (at least .5 inch square) available
>> > >>>> that's suitable for the hobbyist budget? Hopefully with some
>> > >>>> back-end support electronics so that I can get it to USB or 1394?
>> > >>>> Capture & transfer speed is of no concern.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> I see this Sony commercial camera with the kind of 'guts' I want:
>> > >>>> http://www.sony.net/Products/ISP/products/interface/DFWSX.html
>> > >>>> but yikes, it's the better part of $3000!
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Thanks...
>> > >>> The cheapest route, will be a standard digital camera. Something
>> > >>> like the Canon 300D, since it supports removable lenses, will be
>the
>> > >>> easiest to connct to whatever you want. This sort of camera, sells
>> > >>> often for less than the bare CCD can be purchased in limited
>> > >>> quantities, so will allways undercut units like 'commercial'
>> > >>> cameras, which are made for a small market. The CCD you want is
>> > >>> relatively large (CCD sizes are normally quoted as the diagonal of
>> > >>> the chip itself, so a 'half inch' CCD, will typically only be
>about
>> > >>> 9 * 7mm). For smaller CCD's, there are routes like wiring a larger
>> > >>> chip, onto a webcam board, but for a unit this large, thge total
>> > >>> cost of this, still runs to about as much as the Canon camera...
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Best Wishes
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks, but darn, that puts the kaibash on my plan. Still too
>pricey
>> > >> and since that's a diagonal measurement, it'd still be a bit too
>> > >> small. I was hoping to scan 16mm film frames in direct contact
>with
>> > >> the sensor, but I'd probably need about 13mm (~1/2") wide sensor
>> area.
>> > >> Looks like I'll need to use optics, and I think my bro's MiniDV cam
>> > >> has a higher-than-video-res still capture mode... that gives me
>> > >> another idea to play with.
>> > >
>> > >Even if a large CCD were affordable, direct contact is not the way
>> > >to do it. The cover slip on the CCD has a discrete thickness and
>> > >then the active surface has coloured dots on it for the RGB pixels.
>> > >
>> > >You'll have to use optics but then a webcam has sufficient resolution
>> > >these days and also has a focusable lens. Its software will permit
>> > >the saving to disc of the files.
>> >
>> > About the discrete thickness I think you mean that the image has to be
>> > focused on the sensor, behind the cover slip & colored dot layers. I
>> > did wonder about that.
>>
>> Yes, indeed. Any image formed on a plane other than the active
>> surface of the CCD will not be in focus.
>>
>> > What particular webcam products do you think I should look at?
>> > There's sooo many junk ones out there that google doesn't help.
>>
>> The Philips ToUCam Pro II is well regarded in astronomy circles.
>> It isn't the cheapest at around $100 but has a lot of support around
>> the 'net and in the QCUIAG group on Yahoo!
>>
>>
>> > I'll need additional optics, right? I don't expect the usual webcam
>> > will focus on a 16mm backlit object at full frame.
>>
>> No, the existing lens will focus down to extremely close and I have
>> no doubt that you'll be able to get acceptable images for TV use.
>> I have focused an image of a UK five pence piece (18mm dia)
>> full screen on a TV monitor using a tiny security camera and its
>> standard screw-thread lens . I shot a photo of the screen on my
>> Olympus C3000z which I could make available later if there's
>> some interest.
>>
>> You may need to be careful that you don't over illuminate the chip.
>> but a layer or three of matt white plastic diffuser should do it.
>>
>>
>> > Is there an easy
>> > solution here that I'm missing?
>>
>> Webcam!
>The largest chip that has been fitted to the Toucam, that I know of, is a
>0.5" unit (I have one here, that I did myself). Though the Toucam is not
>the 'cheapest' camera, as a whole, it is probably the cheapest 'route',
>and is a very small assembly too.
>As has been pointed out, 'direct contact' won't work, so some optics will
>have to be added. The cheapest route that I can think of to scan film,
>with reasonable resolution, would be to use a much simpler 'line' scanner
>assembly, and a moving holder, with a simple focussing system. This will
>give much higher resolutions than the Toucam approach. However you then
>have to realise that small USB film scanners are available for about £100,
>with everything allready built...
>
>Best Wishes
Ah, it sounds like the Toucam just may fit the bill! Thanks for the
recommendations on that guys.
Yea, I know about the linear scanner approach, I worked on something
like that at a company in the 80s to scan 35mm film ... we had a
stepper motor hooked up to a micrometer to move the unit.
About available film scanners though, all the (affordable) ones I've
found just take a short strip of film, while I have reels and reels of
it and I'm not going to cut it up.
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