Re: A Golden Opportunity!

From: Don James (stop_spaam_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 08/23/04

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    Date: 22 Aug 2004 18:54:54 -0700

    "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote in message news:<10ihsvejefoth01@corp.supernews.com>...
    > "Don James" <stop_spaam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:1dcff9aa.0408190746.2dc4a1be@posting.google.com...
    > > 1) I'm less likely to be shilled (yes, shill bidding happens on eBay,
    > > and it costs buyers a lot of money)
    >
    > Not if the buyer knows what the item is worth, and his maximum bid
    > reflects that.

    Perhaps you should look up the definition of shill bidding. If I'm the
    only legitimate bidder, and the seller illegally bids against me, it
    costs me money. Bidding what an item is worth to me is logical; having
    to pay my max because a seller commits a crime (shilling is a crime in
    most states) is something altogether different. Sniping doesn't give
    the seller a bid to shill against.

    > > 2) I don't have to wait for the auction to be over before I bid on
    > > another similar item (remember, even if you're outbid on eBay, a
    > > retraction or cancellation can make you the winner; if you don't want
    > > two of something, you have to wait for the auction to end once you've
    > > bid)
    >
    > Then why are you bidding on two different items?

    If I'm sniping, I'm not; that's the point. An early bidder has
    committed his money to the first auction; if a better item, or a
    "Buy-It-Now" auction, or an auction with a shorter duration is listed,
    I can safely snipe it. The early bidder is stuck unless he wants to
    risk winning both.

    > > 3) I don't become someone's "personal shopper" (someone who bids early
    > > on a lot of items, allowing others to find things by scanning his
    > > bidding history)
    >
    > How does scanning one's bidding history help others?

    My best bargains on eBay have come on items where the seller has done
    a poor job describing the item (mis-identification, misspelled words,
    important information omitted, wrong category), and they don't show up
    in any normal search for the item. The people whose history I check
    seem to look through a huge amount of auctions, uncovering items I'm
    interested in but wouldn't turn up in my searches. When they bid
    early, they leave a trail for other bidders to find and win an item
    they wouldn't have seen otherwise. A sniper's bid history is of no use
    to anyone, because the auction is over ten seconds after the bid is
    placed.

    > > 4) I'm less likely to get "auction fever" and bid more than I can
    > > afford; I get one shot, and have to decide how much an item is really
    > > worth to me.
    >
    > That's not true. You can still change your bid up to the last moment.

    I'm a sniper; I make my first and only bid at the "last moment". By
    bidding late enough to prevent others from reacting to my bid, I also
    give up the opportunity to change my bid because time will have run
    out. My max has to be my real max.

    > > There are others, but the point is that sniping isn't done just to
    > > take advantage of the uninformed bidder. It would be fine with me if
    > > eBay restricted people to one bid per item (as you suggested), but I
    > > think they like the bidding wars.
    >
    > After you get into a bidding frenzy, you learn how unproductive it is
    > when you find that others are paying a lot less for the same items
    > because they didn't get the fever. So you should have learned that
    > early on. Just hope you make your mistakes on low cost items in tbe
    > beginning.

    Some people learn more quickly than others.

    > > Automatic extensions may be OK for some sites, but I doubt they'd be
    > > well-received in a global, 24/7 environment like eBay. You're
    > > proposing a system that would virtually require users to be at their
    > > computers when an auction is ending, in order to defend their bids
    >
    > If you're defending your bid, then you're getting into a bidding war or
    > frenzy. And that's a big mistake that no bidder should make, no matter
    > what the auction.

    In an eBay auction, with no extensions, you'd be right. But I'm
    referring to auctions that get extended. Smart bidders still wouldn't
    exceed their max, but they'd bid in small increments instead of
    throwing out a proxy bid that could be chewed up with no fixed end
    time. The only way to do that is to be at the computer at the end
    time.

    > > (I wouldn't expect eBay's proxy bidding system to survive if other
    > > bidders could nibble away at the proxy for as long as they wanted;
    > > that would be paradise for shill-bidders and "win at all costs"
    > > bidders).
    >
    > Don't you think you're saying paradise for the wrong people? The
    > paradise would be for the seller. Win at all costs bidders can already
    > get whatever they want by overbidding at the beginning. They're fools
    > whose money will soon be parted. Shill bidders won't change a prudent
    > bidder's maximum bid. He knows what the item is worth.

    Again, paying the full amount of my proxy because there was another
    legitimate bidder is fine; paying my max because the seller was gaming
    me is the problem. Extensions will give sellers more opportunity to
    illegally manipulate the price.

    > > That gives me a one-hour time window; if an auction for
    > > something I want doesn't end in that window, I won't be bidding. That
    > > doesn't sound like an effective system to me.
    >
    > > BTW, Yahoo Auctions offers extensions as an option. It's rarely used.
    > > If eBay offered it, I'd expect the same level of success.

    No comment? I'd be interested to hear your explanation for the lack of
    acceptance of this feature. I'm sure eBay has taken note of its
    failure; perhaps you should do the same.

  • Next message: gothika: "Re: Safe to use WD40 as switch or potentiometer cleaner?"

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