Re: Ping Kevin Aylward - re your "scientific paper"

From: Rich Grise (null_at_example.net)
Date: 09/20/04 

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:29:54 GMT

On Sunday 19 September 2004 12:56 am, John Woodgate did deign to grace us
with the following:

> I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise <null@example.net>
> wrote (in <JD43d.819$2A1.423@trnddc08>) about 'Ping Kevin Aylward - re
> your "scientific paper"', on Sun, 19 Sep 2004:
>
>>For example, what's his explanation for what makes dead matter want to
>>spontaneously reverse entropy and become alive? Apparently Kevin's
>>theories explain how to do that, right? He can take a lump of carbon,
>>and some water and trace elements, and by cleverly rearranging them,
>>make live matter out of dead, right?
>
> I don't suppose he claims that he can do it. But what is the
> alternative? That life has existed for ever? Even before there was any
> carbon or water?

Well, since you ask, the impetus, of course, is Spirit trying to remember
itself.

There's a fairly mechanistic treatment of one way of looking at it,
in a book called "The Reflexive Universe." He does start with a basic
premise that, essentially, the photon is the basic quantum of Consciousness,
more or less, and that everything not just _has_ free will, but is pretty
much _made of_ free will.

In fact, here's an introduction:
http://www.arthuryoung.com/newru.html
And a sample:
http://www.arthuryoung.com/ruexc.html

Like Carl Sagan said, we are the Cosmos trying to understand itself.
>
> At one time, scientists (natural philosophers at that time) thought that
> all organic matter include a 'life-force' that made it essentially
> different from non-living matter. That was, until someone heated urea,
> and found that it turned into ammonium carbamate, a known non-living
> substance, and nothing else. The atoms just re-arrange.

My reading of this looks like they heated urea, and the result was a
non-living substance. Fire does this, too - I presume that your point
was something a little more esoteric? - don't get me wrong, I definitely
believe there's "something" that differentiates live beings from dead
ones. Not much, though, sometimes.
 
> It may already be possible to synthesise a virus, but there is doubt
> that they are truly 'alive'.

I kind of assumed that it'd be clear that I was just going after Kevin's
jugular, figuratively, to tear down his pet theory.

Admittedly, this whole thing has gotten somewhat out of line - it's kinda
like entertainment, but I can't help but think it's terribly annoying
if not outright painful for Kevin, but then again, he does seem to be
doing a good job of holding up his end of the discussion!

My only real original bone to pick with Kevin is his adamance about
the absolute certainty of some things, like "There is no magic." Well,
Kevin, in case you're reading this as well, how do you know that the
real magicians aren't simply hiding from you and others because they're
afraid of being burned at the stake for the crime of having the
audacity to exist in a world where they're disallowed? Kinda like only
a few hundred years ago?

And Kevin, I've gone so far as to pick a technical point to argue with -
--------
   These papers forms an outline of the basics as to why individuals are
   what they are based on the theory of gene-meme interaction, subject only
   to the Darwinian axioms of random variation, selection and replication. 

--
Can you cite a peer-reviewed source for this conjecture? In other words,
has anyone else ever heard of, let alone published, these "Darwinian axioms
of random variation, selection, and replication"? 
And, of course, I profoundly disagree with your basic premise that there's
no more to anything than that, although "replication" can be kinda broad.
--
   The theory of evolutionary selection of Replicators is a simple one, but 
   essentially, just the natural extension, of the standard biology of 
   theory of evolutionary of genes. It requires only a few basic assumptions 
   or postulates...
--------
And those basic assumptions or postulates would be ..... ?
Thanks,
Rich

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