Re: Ping Kevin Aylward - re your "scientific paper"

From: Don Pearce (donald_at_pearce.uk.com)
Date: 09/20/04 

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:37:00 GMT

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:35:30 GMT, "Kevin Aylward"
<salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:

>Don Pearce wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:21:39 GMT, "Kevin Aylward"
>> <salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Not al all. There is one claim on one paragraph. No one has brought
>>> to me any other paragraphs that are unclear.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And, nothing personal, but I seem to not be the only person who's
>>>> noticed.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You not the only person who has formed an opinion on the basis of one
>>> paragraph.
>>
>> It is not only a lack of clarity - it is your lack of understanding of
>> - say - quantum mechanics that is the problem.
>
>Oh?
>
>>Here we go with a few
>> quotes:
>>
>> "No Two places at Once
>>
>> It is often stated that Quantum Mechanics implies that a particle can
>> be in two places at the same time. This is false, and at no time has
>> any experiment ever been performed that detected co-incidence of the
>> same particle in two different positions at once.
>>
>> The reason for this erroneous notion, is again, due to the non
>> existing collapse of the wave function."
>>
>> Nowhere in quantum mechanics is there a claim that a particle can be
>> in two places at once - all you get is a probability field that makes
>> no claims about position, until you make a measurement and force a
>> collapse into a location - and that is always just one location.
>
>I can point you to 10,000s of web sites on QM making such a claim. For
>example, http://www.qubit.org/library/intros/comp/comp.html
>
>This is typical of the bogus argument to claim that photons take two
>paths simultaneously.
>Q.E.D
>

Listen carefully. PHOTONS DO NOT TAKE PATHS. They do not take one
path, they do not take two paths. They are not objects. They are a
state of probability that is resolved only on the collapse of the wave
function that describes that probability on detection. Why do you
insist on this big-world analogy for fundamental particles?

>>
>> Next quote:
>>
>> "The collapse of the wave function or reduction of the state vector is
>> simple not required in the correct ensemble interpretation, nor is it
>> supported experimentally. No experiment has ever measured an object in
>> two states simultaneously. Objects have only ever been measured in an
>> eigen state, so to postulate that they do is unsupportable
>> metaphysics. Objects only exist in eigen states, it is just not known
>> which one they are in prior to a measurement. There is arguably,
>> little place in physics for notions that cannot, in principle, be
>> measured."
>>
>> Duh! Of course no experiment ever placed an object in two states
>> simultaneously - the observation forces a single state. Have you not
>> read the books?
>
>Of course, and that is why those that claim such a thing are wrong.
>
No, silly, that is why they are right. It fits the experimental data.
>>
>> If objects only existed in Eigen states, but we didn't know what they
>> were until we measured them, then the two slit experiment applied to
>> individual photons would yield two bunches of hits, in line with the
>> slits.
>
>No it doesn't. This is only true if you use a classical argument.
>Particles don't obey classical mechanics. For example,
>http://www.mathematik.uni-muenchen.de/~bohmmech/Poster/post/postE.html
>
>Note the trajectories.
>
>>It doesn't - there is interference.
>
>Yes.
>
And you can't get interference from individual particles. You do get
interference from collapsing a probability at a point.

>>
>> Next quote:
>>
>> "Schrödinger Cat was introduced to prove that one interpretation of
>> the Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics was false. It
>> achieved this, yet many simply failed to notice. The fact that a cat
>> can not be both dead and alive at the same time was simple ignored.
>> The reason for this was that the mathematics worked, irrespective of
>> the fact that the metaphysical interpretation to the mathematics was
>> false. However, the mathematics simply does not require this
>> metaphysical add on. "
>>
>> You've misunderstood - this was always an allegory.
>
>Not according to 10,000s of web sites. Find me a site that don't take
>the cat as proof of dual states.
>
!0,000s of web sites are, of course, right - particularly if they are
like yours...

>> The idea was to
>> consider the condition of the cat to be included within the wave
>> function of the system inside the box. Obviously an object of that
>> size collapses the wave function as quickly as any observer, and the
>> cat is indeed either dead or alive in any real-world scenario. Imagine
>> a putative cat made of a single electron, and you have a better idea
>> of what the story is all about.
>>
>> Will that do for now?
>
>Nope.
>
Shame on you.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

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