Re: Latest News

From: R. Steve Walz (rstevew_at_armory.com)
Date: 11/23/04 

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:21:58 GMT

Tom Seim wrote:
>
> "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message news:<41A059D8.582@armory.com>...
> > Tom Seim wrote:
> > >
> > > "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message news:<419EC733.56E7@armory.com>...
> > > > Mark Fergerson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > R. Steve Walz wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >>> That's what I was trying to tell RSW. It's approaching
> > > > > >>> the situation with royalty in the U.K. and other countries
> > > > > >>> that maintain them for show.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can see a day when those genetically predisposed to
> > > > > excessive wealth acquisition are kept in elaborately gilded
> > > > > cages, smirkingly waited upon hand and foot and bowed and
> > > > > scraped to, just to keep them out of everyone else's way.
> > > > > Come to think of it, it's already happening...
> > > > --------------------------------
> > > > All it takes is to make theft of all types illegal and unfair wealth
> > > > acquisition simply won't be allowed. If these idiots want to work
> > > > every hour of every day so that they have no time to enjoy what they
> > > > earn, and they can buy unperishable wealth items of value that they
> > > > have no time to enjoy, they should probably be made to see a pshrink.
> > >
> > > Ok, what's the maximum wealth that you would permit?
> > ---------------
> > No owning land, democratic control
>
> Is your government elected or appointed?
--------------------
Let's pretend you have a mind.
What does Democratic Majority mean everywhere in my writings?

 
> of all land except residential.
> > Everyone is entitled to own their home and compound. No sale of
> > homes, only trade straight across through the aegis of the State
> > if one desires to relocate.
> >
> > No owning corporate factories or any industrial equipment except
> > what you can pursue on your residential compound. No owning stocks
> > or bonds, no savable money, all exchange is in terms of labor hours
>
> So you are going to dismantle the monetary system.
---------------------------
Hmmmm, you're certainly dense, aren't you?

 
> > rendered to the State for basic commodities and consumer items.
> > All grown and made products are rendered to the State for their
> > agreed labor hours credit amortized over the whole of each product.
> >
> > If it takes a total of 300 labor hours to make 3000 widgets from
> > materials mined or harvested to parts composing it, to the final
> > assemblage, then each costs a tenth of an hour. Unless crippled,
> > veryone is required to work the democratically agreed minimum hours
> > to meet basic needs or else they don't eat and it is illegal to even
> > feed them.
>
> From each according to their abilities, to each according to their
> needs.
------------------------------
Nope. Read it again.
You're regugitating your brainwashing from high school.

 
> > If they want more they sign up for more labor hours over their
> > minimum, with which to buy consumer items. The only wealth that
> > would even be possible is in personal property. Used items can be
> > freely traded at weekly local flea markets.
> >
> > The State mandates that repair parts be available indefinitely for
> > anything at cost.
>
> How are you going to set costs without a monetary system?
----------------------------
Every product has a costs assessment in labor hours following it,
from wells, mines and farms to factories right up to delivery as
a product, and from that the price of each item in labor hours
is amortized.

> Who pays to maintain an inventory of spare?
------------------------------
Who does now? We do. Now figure out how that can be done my way.
How stupid are you? Orders for spares stock are pre-ordered for
products by the repair facilities as their normal stock of supplies,
just as any factory does.

> How do you account for the inevitable
> loses incurred on providing spares "at cost"?
------------------------------------
Simple, you study that phenomenon and justify a slightly higher price
in labor hours of those goods because of it, represented by each
product item's price by division of its costs for the whole lot.

The State gains its costs for medical and care of the infirm in a
similar way, by costing each person an equal minimum labor hour
quota they must work to receive food, power, telecom, gas, recycle,
and water. This "tax" on things is price-inherent, not seen explicitly
for any one item.

> If you can make something the rest of us want on
> > your compound then you can petition to work at home, and be paid for
> > supplies and tools as well, but otherewise you work at a publically
> > owned factory or farm.
> >
> > If you want something and can find enough other people who do you
> > can get the State to assign labor credit to anyone who wants to make
> > that item at an agreed exchange rate based on how long other skilled
> > workers in similar fields agree it would cost in hours of labor.
>
> So the State decides what will be produced.
--------------------------------
No, each person both orders things from the Catalog, and adds items
to it by submitting requests online in a kind of eco-political eBay
for people to organize who want some new kind of product, they present
it to everyone, and they ask that orders for such a product by collected
and that these orders become standing work-orders for that
product to be produced, then people who want more work can offer to
manufacture it at any factory with suitable space and tools, or they
can ask that a new factory be built for it and submit evidence that
it would be well-used. If a hobby group wants certain specialty items
produced, it simply submits its orders to the local Committee of the
People that meets several times a week. If approved, they compete for
any remaining materials and factory space, or they are requested to
pursue its manufacture as a hobby or avocation in their home compounds
for a bit longer till there is more demand. If they can show demand
and ability and get labor hour quotes approved those who manufacture
them, even on a small scale, can be paid labor hours to do so. If
they can simply show orders and provide an acceptable quote for labor
then they can be paid labor hours and they sell the product to the
State Catalog for sale.

> > Everything of this sort is decided locally at the Society meeting
> > twice a week by whomever shows up to do it. People are lenient
> > with each other because they want support for their own desires
> > as well.
> >
> > You order things before they are produced, and they aren't produced
> > for your order unless you order them.
>
> So mass production is gone. And, along with it, low-priced goods.
-------------
Not at all, we simply make things in huge lots when an order for that
many accumulates, unless the People vote it a critical commodity.

> Products will be hand made at very high cost. Take you average car.
> How can you organize a supply chain when your "vendors" have no idea
> what quantities you will be ordering? And when you do order, the
> vendors will have to supply the parts at cost.
------------------------------------------
In reality everything is done "at cost", profit is merely the rich
stealing a portion of the wage of the laborers and then partially
inflating the exchange medium without fully correcting for that.
Now that there are no rich to do so, cost is all that anything
requires. Investment is only done by the People as the State.
 
 
> > If we all decide we have enough
> > stuff for a month or two, we go home and pursue our hobbies after our
> > minimum hour jobs until enough people want new things. They literally
> > arrange with others who ALSO want more "stuff" to make it for one
> > another, via the computerized ordering system
>
> Forget about computers - this is an extremely heavily capitalized
> industry that will be vaporized by your system.
----------------------------------------
Nonsense. No "capital" from "rich" is required. The People's State
alots extra labor to begin new endeavors or tool-up for a new run.
This is done in factories all the time.

That is actually what is happening anyway, it is simply disguised
as the "rich" funding new endeavors by their stolen wealth and by
their greed dictating what the society will next produce.

 
> > between factories that
> > records all orders for manufacture and all labor hour credit. High
> > ticket items can be partly paid in advance by labor and partly by
> > promised future labor, time payment out of your wage to save storage
> > costs. If you don't work the hours, you forfeit the item till you
> > do.
> >
> > All this can be done quite locally in terms of a govt of perhaps
> > only 5000 people either at public meetings or over the Net. Larger
> > governance are done via the Net or by study committees that report
> > back to everyone for grassroots approval.
> >
> > -Steve
>
> What size population are you talking about? It takes 5000 people just
> to issue Social Security checks when all steps in the process are
> considered.
--------------------------------------------
But not in one town or city. Nor do we need any such without "money".
It is totally scalable.

-Steve 

-- 
-Steve Walz  rstevew@armory.com   ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!!  With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

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