Re: Is microprocessor an integrated circuit???

From: keith (krw_at_att.bizzzz)
Date: 01/29/05 

Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 13:14:12 -0500

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 22:33:18 +0000, Bradley1234 wrote:

>>
>> No I don't. YOu thought it was megabucks, so couldn't be bothered to buy
>> one (for $18). You're now showing that on top of being ignoran, your're
>> stupid, and now a liar. ...not a good day, overall.
>>
>
> The ISO appears to sell it for $399. Those kinds of publications are
> pricey, thats a fact of life. If someone found it for $18 ? sounds like a
> bargain

So buy it and read it. You're in for an eye-opener.

>> > Ive seen it, there are lots of essay style sections, sub sections, legal
>> > looking and not many pictures, I like books with pictures in them
>>
>> None of which you've read or understood (or even seen - see above). You
>> were told somethign by your third-rate teachers at your fourth-rate
>> college (if you got that far) and believe them. Get a refund. They
>> defrauded you.
>>
>
> Or maybe Im so smart, so amazingly qualified and so experienced that Im not
> afraid to be misinterpreted or misunderestimated

Or so arrogant that you cannot let go of a long held belief in the tooth
fairy after being told by your dentist that they don't exist. "But my
mommy wouldn't lie."
 
>> >> > In hardware, a byte is 8 bits, period, case closed
>> >>
>> >> Wrong. Get a refund on your tuition.
>> >
>> > Im working on that, easier to squeeze water from a rock, those
>> > crooks.
>>
>> Si you admit that you're pig ignorant, but assume the rest of the world
>> has had an education as "good" as yours? Sorry, some of us have had
>> very good teachers. Experience; lots of it. Open minds help too. You
>> should try it some time.
>>
>>
> I admit that I want a refund on some of the tuition I paid because the
> school was incompetent, I was overqualified. You jump to conclusions,
> not very open minded

They were incompetent, obviously. Your education is sorely lacking as a
result. Add that to your suit.

>> >> > In the C language it has to represent -127 to + 127, hey thats a
>> > coincidance
>> >> > 8 bits gives you that.
>> >>
>> >> Nope (understand that I'm not a 'C' programmer, only a processor
>> >> developer). From: http://www.comeaucomputing.com/techtalk/
>> >
>> > So you would say that in 8 bits (aka a "byte") you cannot represent
>> > the range of -127 to +127? What would your math teacher say?
>>
>> You are not only pig-ignorant, now you're adding *stupid* to the mix. A
>> "byte" is *not* defined as an eight-bit entity (as JL has said, that
>> would be the definition of an "octet"). Of course there are 256
>> possible values of an 8-bit entity (ignoring representations with two
>> values for zero, for instance). That's not the point! A byte is *not*
>> universally defined as being eight bits. Not nowhere, not nohow. It
>> may be defined as being eight buts for a particular ISA, but it's not a
>> universal definition.
>
> I said an 8 bit byte can represent the range of -127 to +127 and you
> said: "Nope"

You didn't say "8 bit byte". You said "byte". Even so, you're still
wrong. An 8 bit byte can store numbers from 0 to 255 (unsigned) or -128
to +127 (signed two's compliment).

The "nope" stands.

> Its like arguing that the inch scale of measurement is arbitrary, its
> not. With only a few rare exceptions in history, a byte is 8 bits, and
> is the standard. We note with disk and memory sizes, they are rated in
> Mega or Giga bytes. Network interface speeds in Mega bytes per second.

Its not rare and can be redefined. The definition of a "byte" is dot
fixed at a certain size. Get over it. Learn your lesson and move along.

> Western Digital could double their disk size by saying a byte is now 16
> bits wide.

If they were selling it to be used in a 16 bit byte machine, sure (wrong
way, but I get your drift). Since they're advertizing it (and it's
formatted for) a system that uses 8 bit bytes they have to be consistent
with the size.

I bet it torques your jaws that they measure the size in
decimal too.
 
> One of the other factors in using the byte system is the Base 2 math,
> and unless IM mistaken shifting left or right will double or divide by 2
> the binary base 2 number. Designers would therefore prefer a byte that
> is a multiple, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32

Six bit bytes were common. IIRC the CDC Ciber series had a 60bit
word and a 6bit byte. As has been noted IBM talks of a 10bit byte in one
of the I/O processors.

> But since its already 8 bits, thats how its used.

Nope. It' used by the ignorant to mean eight bits, or it's understood by
the context that it's eight bits. A byte is in no way defined as being
eight bits though.
>
>> > You are a processor developer? Are you familiar with the use of
>> > signed/unsigned numbers?
>>
>> Give me a f#@$!@# break. I was doing binary arithmetic when your
>> father was still s#@#$ yellow.
>
> When a person begins losing a debate and has no declarative or
> informative contribution, the discussion degrades into separate and
> unique steps, personal attacks (pig stupid), then profanity, then rage,
> then violence.

Violence? No. Frustration with a pig-headed troll? Certainly.

> If you claim to have understood binary at that specific point in time?
> you would be over 100 years old. Congratulations that you are coherent
> and not senile

More than half that, but I was doing binary (and in all bases up to 32 -
got awkward above) in fifth grade, well more than forty years ago. You
simply sounded like a snot-nosed kid who thinks he knows everything.

How many bits are in a byte?
>> >> Although it's common that the number of bits in a byte is 8, this
>> >> is not so for every system. That's right, a byte is not always 8
>> >> bits. A byte is one of those terms which has an interesting
>> >> history and ends up meaning different things to different people.
>> >> For instance, there are some computers where it is 6, 7, 8, 9,
>> >> 32-bits, and so on.
>> >
>> > Oh suuuuure there are, and in South American jungles a byte can be 3
>> > bamboo sticks? You may be confusing byte with word, a word is a
>> > variable width unit that is relative to the architecture of the
>> > processor or application. A byte is 8 bits today, even when its 9
>> > bits.
>>
>> You're hopeless. *I* didn't write the above you retard! I'm quoting
>> from the site referenced. Did you even do the search I suggested? Of
>> course not. You're happy with your ignorance.
>
> Yes I researched the site, the oddball, erroneous, unauthorized uses of
> the term "byte" exist. But the SAE measurement of inches has a better
> chance to be converted to metric than the byte has a chance of being
> other than 8 bits.

You're hopeless. I hope you're not involved in any engineering more
complicated than a toaster.

> When a byte is represented as 9 bits, the 8 bits remain as the data the
> extra bit is a parity bit, meaning its a type of wrapper component, not
> a literal 9-bit word. If anyone in history combined 3 octal digits into
> a 9 bit word? its technically not the same.

Did I say anything about parity or prepresentations of binary numbers?
I'm talking about sizeof(byte) *not* being fixed at eight. It is
*usually* equal to eight, but if you assume that it's a fact it will come
back to byte someone. ;-)

<snip>

>> > Yet you havent shown where people, today, in business, use the byte
>> > for MORE than 8 bits? Not in some novelty scenario 40 years ago
>> > thats long gone, does Intel use a non 8-bit byte? Xilinx? Altera?
>> > Microsoft?

IBM? Yes. The official 'C' Standard. Yes. Life? Yes. Get over it,
you're wrong.

>> Retard, you were arguing not a half-day ago that ninety thousand years
>> ago a "microprocessor" was defined as being a processor that was
>> microcoded (absolutely wrong). Now you decide that all processors made
>> *today* have eight-bit bytes, thus a byte is *defined* to be 8-bits.
>
> Thats what it means, by the majority of the industry, and your failure
> to provide any examples in the industry show that I was correct
>
I've proven your definition wrong by example. There are many
"microprocessors" that are *not* microprogrammed. There are many
microprogrammed processors that are *not* microprocessors. An IBM 360 is
hardly a microprocessor, though the "same architecture" some forty
years later, known as the z-Series are, in fact, microprocessors. Some
models are microprogrammed, some are hard-wired. The terms are othogonal.

Yet you've not shown one authoritative example of a VAX-11/780 being
called a "microprocessor".

>
>> The fact is that you're wrong, twice. In fact you haven't been right
>> about anything yet. ...but are pig-headed enough to continue on
>> fighting your 0-n-2 record. Give it up and flip burgers. You'll be a
>> lot less dangerous in a McD's.
>>
>>
>>
> Well then you wont want to know Ive contributed for years to make those
> things that launch into orbit whatever they are called, go up and keep
> the range safe so they fly up there and spin around or whatever they do.
>
> I dont believe a McD's would hire me with my resume, too overqualified

They're afraid you couldn't learn the process.
 
>> >> > Aside from pointing to data on the surface of the moon we cannot
>> >> > read here
>> >> > online, like specs costing $$ can you show where a byte is used
>> >> > for more than 8 bits in the software industry?
>> >> >
>> >> Several systems had byte sizes other than 8-bits. If you want
>> >> references that aren't on "on the surface of the moon", even though
>> >> they are the *standards* which you're mistakenly using, try a search
>> >> on "6-bit byte" and report back. You gotta promise to report back
>> >> though or I won't do any more work for you.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Yes Ive heard of Octal, yes some people for a particular era/industry
>> > adopted the word byte for 6 bits. The originator made it 8 bits
>> > which has lasted and is the standard. In hardware, are there any non
>> > 8 bit byte devices?
>>
>> You are off-the-chart stupid. A 6-bit byte is *still* a byte, whether
>> it's represented in octal or not. The "originator" of the term "byte"
>> did *not* specify it as 8-bits. In fact it was IBM that standardized
>> on 8-bits, *after* the term was already in use. Sheesh!
>
> Okay you win, Im sorry to upset you so much, if you want to say a 6 bit
> byte is a byte... no, I wont do it, youre wrong, I cant even pretend to
> concede, its an 8 bit byte

You can continue life being ignorant or you can learn. Your choice.

>> > Do you use 2629 code? Hollerith punched cards? if not, why not? I
>> > want, no I demand all computers today be equipped with a Hollerith
>> > punched card reader that uses 2629 code.
>
> Well if you knew binary over 100 years ago, you should then of course
> know about the Hollerith punched card and what 2629 is.

I know what an 026 is, and an 029. I used them in college, and a couple
of times since. 2629 to me is the model number of my laptop (ThinkPad
A21p).

> I like punched card equipment, it was fun to work on with the mechanical
> stuff and electrical also.

My guess is that you're not talking about a ThinkPad.

>> Stupid is as stupid types.
>>
>> Anyone else reading along will see that you're hopeless and won't go
>> down the quagmire you call a road. I feel sorry for anyone who has to
>> pick up your messes.
>
> Well people do say everyone has to work harder when Im around
>
To clean up your messes, no doubt.

BTW, a decent newsreader would be a good "investment". 

-- 
  Keith

Relevant Pages