Re: Is microprocessor an integrated circuit???
From: Bradley1234 (someone_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 01/29/05
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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 19:33:19 GMT
"keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.01.29.18.14.11.467455@att.bizzzz...
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 22:33:18 +0000, Bradley1234 wrote:
>
> >>
> >> No I don't. YOu thought it was megabucks, so couldn't be bothered to
buy
> >> one (for $18). You're now showing that on top of being ignoran,
your're
> >> stupid, and now a liar. ...not a good day, overall.
> >>
> >
> > The ISO appears to sell it for $399. Those kinds of publications are
> > pricey, thats a fact of life. If someone found it for $18 ? sounds
like a
> > bargain
>
> So buy it and read it. You're in for an eye-opener.
Show me where the official version is on sale for $18
>
> >> > Ive seen it, there are lots of essay style sections, sub sections,
legal
> >> > looking and not many pictures, I like books with pictures in them
> >>
> >> None of which you've read or understood (or even seen - see above).
You
> >> were told somethign by your third-rate teachers at your fourth-rate
> >> college (if you got that far) and believe them. Get a refund. They
> >> defrauded you.
> >>
> >
> > Or maybe Im so smart, so amazingly qualified and so experienced that Im
not
> > afraid to be misinterpreted or misunderestimated
>
> Or so arrogant that you cannot let go of a long held belief in the tooth
> fairy after being told by your dentist that they don't exist. "But my
> mommy wouldn't lie."
>
The tooth fairy? She is married to Jergen Von Strangle, the toughest fairy
in fairy world
> >> >> > In hardware, a byte is 8 bits, period, case closed
> >> >>
> >> >> Wrong. Get a refund on your tuition.
> >> >
> >> > Im working on that, easier to squeeze water from a rock, those
> >> > crooks.
> >>
> >> Si you admit that you're pig ignorant, but assume the rest of the world
> >> has had an education as "good" as yours? Sorry, some of us have had
> >> very good teachers. Experience; lots of it. Open minds help too. You
> >> should try it some time.
> >>
> >>
> > I admit that I want a refund on some of the tuition I paid because the
> > school was incompetent, I was overqualified. You jump to conclusions,
> > not very open minded
>
> They were incompetent, obviously. Your education is sorely lacking as a
> result. Add that to your suit.
Let me ask you a simple question, do you know what BiCMOS is? (not a trick
question)
>
> >> >> > In the C language it has to represent -127 to + 127, hey thats a
> >> > coincidance
> >> >> > 8 bits gives you that.
> >> >>
> >> >> Nope (understand that I'm not a 'C' programmer, only a processor
> >> >> developer). From: http://www.comeaucomputing.com/techtalk/
> >> >
> >> > So you would say that in 8 bits (aka a "byte") you cannot represent
> >> > the range of -127 to +127? What would your math teacher say?
> >>
> >> You are not only pig-ignorant, now you're adding *stupid* to the mix. A
> >> "byte" is *not* defined as an eight-bit entity (as JL has said, that
> >> would be the definition of an "octet"). Of course there are 256
> >> possible values of an 8-bit entity (ignoring representations with two
> >> values for zero, for instance). That's not the point! A byte is *not*
> >> universally defined as being eight bits. Not nowhere, not nohow. It
> >> may be defined as being eight buts for a particular ISA, but it's not a
> >> universal definition.
> >
> > I said an 8 bit byte can represent the range of -127 to +127 and you
> > said: "Nope"
>
> You didn't say "8 bit byte". You said "byte". Even so, you're still
> wrong. An 8 bit byte can store numbers from 0 to 255 (unsigned) or -128
> to +127 (signed two's compliment).
>
> The "nope" stands.
>
> > Its like arguing that the inch scale of measurement is arbitrary, its
> > not. With only a few rare exceptions in history, a byte is 8 bits, and
> > is the standard. We note with disk and memory sizes, they are rated in
> > Mega or Giga bytes. Network interface speeds in Mega bytes per second.
>
> Its not rare and can be redefined. The definition of a "byte" is dot
> fixed at a certain size. Get over it. Learn your lesson and move along.
You have never shown any evidence of this being the current standard, yet
you continue to claim the byte definition is arbitrary, and want to hurry to
change the subject now when there is nothing to support what you thought was
an arbitrary byte size
>
> > Western Digital could double their disk size by saying a byte is now 16
> > bits wide.
>
> If they were selling it to be used in a 16 bit byte machine, sure (wrong
> way, but I get your drift). Since they're advertizing it (and it's
> formatted for) a system that uses 8 bit bytes they have to be consistent
> with the size.
>
> I bet it torques your jaws that they measure the size in
> decimal too.
right, 4 bit byte would double it not 16. but decimal? not a problem
>
> > One of the other factors in using the byte system is the Base 2 math,
> > and unless IM mistaken shifting left or right will double or divide by 2
> > the binary base 2 number. Designers would therefore prefer a byte that
> > is a multiple, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32
>
> Six bit bytes were common. IIRC the CDC Ciber series had a 60bit
> word and a 6bit byte. As has been noted IBM talks of a 10bit byte in one
> of the I/O processors.
>
the CDC Cyber series, but is there any documentation on those old Seymore
designs? how can we verify the internal cpu stuff anymore? They got much
of the architecture from Univac some would argue
And since we are being detailed, the 10 bit byte in an IBM (a small
typewriter company that doesnt influence the computer world) uses an 8 bit
byte for data, and 2 bits for parity. Therefore that 10 bit byte IS an 8
bit byte, parity is not part of the byte data, its a wrapper
> > But since its already 8 bits, thats how its used.
>
> Nope. It' used by the ignorant to mean eight bits, or it's understood by
> the context that it's eight bits. A byte is in no way defined as being
> eight bits though.
> >
> >> > You are a processor developer? Are you familiar with the use of
> >> > signed/unsigned numbers?
> >>
> >> Give me a f#@$!@# break. I was doing binary arithmetic when your
> >> father was still s#@#$ yellow.
> >
> > When a person begins losing a debate and has no declarative or
> > informative contribution, the discussion degrades into separate and
> > unique steps, personal attacks (pig stupid), then profanity, then rage,
> > then violence.
>
> Violence? No. Frustration with a pig-headed troll? Certainly.
Im here responding and taking smack from people and discussing the point,
hardly trollish. newbie to the forum, yes.
>
> > If you claim to have understood binary at that specific point in time?
> > you would be over 100 years old. Congratulations that you are coherent
> > and not senile
>
> More than half that, but I was doing binary (and in all bases up to 32 -
> got awkward above) in fifth grade, well more than forty years ago. You
> simply sounded like a snot-nosed kid who thinks he knows everything.
Yeah, a lot of people say that.
>
> How many bits are in a byte?
> >> >> Although it's common that the number of bits in a byte is 8, this
> >> >> is not so for every system. That's right, a byte is not always 8
> >> >> bits. A byte is one of those terms which has an interesting
> >> >> history and ends up meaning different things to different people.
> >> >> For instance, there are some computers where it is 6, 7, 8, 9,
> >> >> 32-bits, and so on.
> >> >
> >> > Oh suuuuure there are, and in South American jungles a byte can be 3
> >> > bamboo sticks? You may be confusing byte with word, a word is a
> >> > variable width unit that is relative to the architecture of the
> >> > processor or application. A byte is 8 bits today, even when its 9
> >> > bits.
> >>
> >> You're hopeless. *I* didn't write the above you retard! I'm quoting
> >> from the site referenced. Did you even do the search I suggested? Of
> >> course not. You're happy with your ignorance.
> >
> > Yes I researched the site, the oddball, erroneous, unauthorized uses of
> > the term "byte" exist. But the SAE measurement of inches has a better
> > chance to be converted to metric than the byte has a chance of being
> > other than 8 bits.
>
> You're hopeless. I hope you're not involved in any engineering more
> complicated than a toaster
I was trying to get work at a nuke u lar facility doing control systems.
seriously
>
> > When a byte is represented as 9 bits, the 8 bits remain as the data the
> > extra bit is a parity bit, meaning its a type of wrapper component, not
> > a literal 9-bit word. If anyone in history combined 3 octal digits into
> > a 9 bit word? its technically not the same.
>
> Did I say anything about parity or prepresentations of binary numbers?
> I'm talking about sizeof(byte) *not* being fixed at eight. It is
> *usually* equal to eight, but if you assume that it's a fact it will come
> back to byte someone. ;-)
sizeof() sounds very C-ish and in 100% of the time, is 8 bits wide, in
application. The only thing close to challenging this is a quote from a
$400 book that probably doesnt have pictures, that says byte is at least 8
bits.
Find anywhere in C code today that redefines sizeof(byte) as other than 8
bits that would suggest the byte isnt commonly 8 bits. I would design a
nuke u lar system controller thing and rest assured a byte is 8 bits and not
worry at all.
Sizeof(char) or ulong or ushort? They are all relative.
>
> <snip>
>
> >> > Yet you havent shown where people, today, in business, use the byte
> >> > for MORE than 8 bits? Not in some novelty scenario 40 years ago
> >> > thats long gone, does Intel use a non 8-bit byte? Xilinx? Altera?
> >> > Microsoft?
>
> IBM? Yes. The official 'C' Standard. Yes. Life? Yes. Get over it,
> you're wrong.
>
what does ibm ( a small typewriter company) have to do with the official C
standard?
> >> Retard, you were arguing not a half-day ago that ninety thousand years
> >> ago a "microprocessor" was defined as being a processor that was
> >> microcoded (absolutely wrong). Now you decide that all processors made
> >> *today* have eight-bit bytes, thus a byte is *defined* to be 8-bits.
> >
> > Thats what it means, by the majority of the industry, and your failure
> > to provide any examples in the industry show that I was correct
> >
> I've proven your definition wrong by example. There are many
> "microprocessors" that are *not* microprogrammed. There are many
> microprogrammed processors that are *not* microprocessors. An IBM 360 is
> hardly a microprocessor, though the "same architecture" some forty
> years later, known as the z-Series are, in fact, microprocessors. Some
> models are microprogrammed, some are hard-wired. The terms are othogonal.
>
> Yet you've not shown one authoritative example of a VAX-11/780 being
> called a "microprocessor".
The dispute was that some thought my calling it 11/780 cpu somehow implied
the entire system. Have you ever seen a real working 11/780? Ever taken
out the cpu board set?
its micro programmed, IIRC
>
> >
> >> The fact is that you're wrong, twice. In fact you haven't been right
> >> about anything yet. ...but are pig-headed enough to continue on
> >> fighting your 0-n-2 record. Give it up and flip burgers. You'll be a
> >> lot less dangerous in a McD's.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > Well then you wont want to know Ive contributed for years to make those
> > things that launch into orbit whatever they are called, go up and keep
> > the range safe so they fly up there and spin around or whatever they do.
> >
> > I dont believe a McD's would hire me with my resume, too overqualified
>
> They're afraid you couldn't learn the process.
That should be a challenge for an MBA type, to apply to McD as someone
needing a job, get hired, do well, make improvements, get some award etc and
not tell them about the MBA thing, do it for the exercise.
!
> >
> > Okay you win, Im sorry to upset you so much, if you want to say a 6 bit
> > byte is a byte... no, I wont do it, youre wrong, I cant even pretend to
> > concede, its an 8 bit byte
>
> You can continue life being ignorant or you can learn. Your choice.
Im not from Missouri but you just have to show me. I think when we examine
the details of a web link we do not actually find a change in byte size
definition. I like to learn but need fact checking, not assuming something.
Somebody said that if "I" claimed the sky was blue they would double check
it? Good for you! Thats how it should be, not kissing somebodys back end
and assuming they can make decisions for you, learn to do the work yourself.
>
> >> > Do you use 2629 code? Hollerith punched cards? if not, why not? I
> >> > want, no I demand all computers today be equipped with a Hollerith
> >> > punched card reader that uses 2629 code.
> >
> > Well if you knew binary over 100 years ago, you should then of course
> > know about the Hollerith punched card and what 2629 is.
>
> I know what an 026 is, and an 029. I used them in college, and a couple
> of times since. 2629 to me is the model number of my laptop (ThinkPad
> A21p).
>
> > I like punched card equipment, it was fun to work on with the mechanical
> > stuff and electrical also.
>
> My guess is that you're not talking about a ThinkPad.
No, the original punched card equipment
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?CSNUMBER=7606&scopelist=
I guess ISO 2629:1973 isnt used much anymore. It was one of those tactics
that ibm (a small typewriter comany) used to force equipment makers to adopt
one standard so they could get competitors to copy it, then ibm would change
and make the best equipment with a different standard, forcing smaller
companies out of business.
>
> >> Stupid is as stupid types.
> >>
> >> Anyone else reading along will see that you're hopeless and won't go
> >> down the quagmire you call a road. I feel sorry for anyone who has to
> >> pick up your messes.
> >
> > Well people do say everyone has to work harder when Im around
> >
> To clean up your messes, no doubt.
No, I mean people tend to be lazy and pawn off work onto others or spend the
time web surfing. If you can imagine, people get annoyed with me when Im
persistent and in their business asking for results at work. I drive people
to get results, irritating them like nails across the blackboard which I
find soothing to listen to. In past jobs co workers complained about me,
the managers wanted to promote me. doesnt make sense.
>
> BTW, a decent newsreader would be a good "investment".
>
> --
> Keith
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