Re: Is microprocessor an integrated circuit???

From: Terry Given (my_name_at_ieee.org)
Date: 02/04/05 

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:23:48 +1300

keith wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:30:01 +0000, Bradley1234 wrote:
>
>
>>"Keith Williams" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
>>news:MPG.1c632a0bb56a43259898a4@news.individual.net...
>>
>>>In article <PBcKd.1366$lg5.500@trnddc06>, someone@yahoo.com says...
>>>
>>>>Sure send me $450 to purchase the spec, and Ill felch thru it, that
>>
>>seems
>>
>>>>like a cromulent arrangement to me
>>>
>>>You think you know the spec well enough to state what it states, yet
>>>have never read the spec.
>>
>>You think I havent read the spec before? I dont have the thing sitting here
>>because its not needed for SW dev.
>
>
> No I don't. YOu thought it was megabucks, so couldn't be bothered to buy
> one (for $18). You're now showing that on top of being ignoran, your're
> stupid, and now a liar. ...not a good day, overall.
>
>
>>Ive seen it, there are lots of essay style sections, sub sections, legal
>>looking and not many pictures, I like books with pictures in them
>
>
> None of which you've read or understood (or even seen - see above). You
> were told somethign by your third-rate teachers at your fourth-rate
> college (if you got that far) and believe them. Get a refund. They
> defrauded you.
>
>
>>>>In hardware, a byte is 8 bits, period, case closed
>>>
>>>Wrong. Get a refund on your tuition.
>>
>>Im working on that, easier to squeeze water from a rock, those crooks.
>
>
> Si you admit that you're pig ignorant, but assume the rest of the world
> has had an education as "good" as yours? Sorry, some of us have had very
> good teachers. Experience; lots of it. Open minds help too. You should
> try it some time.
>
>
>>>>In the C language it has to represent -127 to + 127, hey thats a
>>
>>coincidance
>>
>>>>8 bits gives you that.
>>>
>>>Nope (understand that I'm not a 'C' programmer, only a processor
>>>developer). From: http://www.comeaucomputing.com/techtalk/
>>
>>So you would say that in 8 bits (aka a "byte") you cannot represent the
>>range of -127 to +127? What would your math teacher say?
>
>
> You are not only pig-ignorant, now you're adding *stupid* to the mix. A
> "byte" is *not* defined as an eight-bit entity (as JL has said, that would
> be the definition of an "octet"). Of course there are 256 possible values
> of an 8-bit entity (ignoring representations with two values for zero, for
> instance). That's not the point! A byte is *not* universally defined as
> being eight bits. Not nowhere, not nohow. It may be defined as being
> eight buts for a particular ISA, but it's not a universal definition.
>
>
>>You are a processor developer? Are you familiar with the use
>>of signed/unsigned numbers?
>
>
> Give me a fucking break. I was doing binary arithmetic when your father
> was still shitting yellow.
>
>
>>> How many bits are in a byte?
>>> Although it's common that the number of bits in a byte is 8, this is
>>> not so for every system. That's right, a byte is not always 8 bits.
>>> A byte is one of those terms which has an interesting history and
>>> ends up meaning different things to different people. For instance,
>>> there are some computers where it is 6, 7, 8, 9, 32-bits, and so on.
>>
>>Oh suuuuure there are, and in South American jungles a byte can be 3
>>bamboo sticks? You may be confusing byte with word, a word is a
>>variable width unit that is relative to the architecture of the
>>processor or application. A byte is 8 bits today, even when its 9 bits.
>
>
> You're hopeless. *I* didn't write the above you retard! I'm quoting from
> the site referenced. Did you even do the search I suggested? Of course
> not. You're happy with your ignorance.
>
>
>>> In C (or C++) you can tell what it is for your system by looking at
>>> limits.h (known as climits in C++) where the macro CHAR_BIT is
>>> defined. It represents the "number of bits for the smallest object
>>> that is not a bit-field", in other words, a byte. Note that it must
>>> be at least 8 (which mean that strictly speaking, a CPU that
>>> supports a 6 bit byte has a problem with C or C++). Also note that
>>> sizeof(char) is defined as 1 by C++ and C (ditto for the sizeof
>>> unsigned char, signed char, and their const and volatile
>>> permutations).
>>>
>>> It might be helpful to show a quote from Standard C:
>>>
>>> * byte: "addressable unit of data storage large enough to hold any
>>> member of the basic character set of the execution environment.
>>> NOTE 1 It is possible to express the address of each individual
>>> byte of an object uniquely. NOTE 2 A byte is composed of a
>>> contiguous sequence of bits, the number of which is implementation
>>> defined. The least significant bit is called the low-order bit; the
>>> most significant bit is called the high-order bit."
>>>
>>> * character: "bit representation that fits in a byte"
>>>
>>>Thus by the 'C' standard the byte is *not* fixed at 8-bits.
>>
>>No, it leaves the definition open. In the typical limits.h, the word
>>byte is 8 bits, its like saying an inch can be whatever length you want
>>it to be. To machinists? they stick to a set standard.
>
>
> Can you fucking read? (that's a rhetorical question, sicne your postings
> show that you clearly cannot).
>
>
>>>>Well Ive never seen anywhere (in reality) where people in the
>>>>business
>>
>>use a
>>
>>>>byte for more than 8 bits. There can be a byte embedded within a 32
>>>>bit word, if the bus width is 32b, since when would that be called a
>>>>byte?
>>>
>>>...and you're telling me that I don't know everything. Well, I've been
>>>in the business long enough to know that you're zero for two today.
>>
>>Yet you havent shown where people, today, in business, use the byte for
>>MORE than 8 bits? Not in some novelty scenario 40 years ago thats long
>>gone, does Intel use a non 8-bit byte? Xilinx? Altera? Microsoft?
>
>
> Retard, you were arguing not a half-day ago that ninety thousand years ago
> a "microprocessor" was defined as being a processor that was microcoded
> (absolutely wrong). Now you decide that all processors made *today* have
> eight-bit bytes, thus a byte is *defined* to be 8-bits.
>
> The fact is that you're wrong, twice. In fact you haven't been right
> about anything yet. ...but are pig-headed enough to continue on fighting
> your 0-n-2 record. Give it up and flip burgers. You'll be a lot less
> dangerous in a McD's.
>
>
>
>>>>Aside from pointing to data on the surface of the moon we cannot read
>>>>here
>>>>online, like specs costing $$ can you show where a byte is used for
>>>>more than 8 bits in the software industry?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Several systems had byte sizes other than 8-bits. If you want
>>>references that aren't on "on the surface of the moon", even though
>>>they are the *standards* which you're mistakenly using, try a search on
>>>"6-bit byte" and report back. You gotta promise to report back though
>>>or I won't do any more work for you.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Yes Ive heard of Octal, yes some people for a particular era/industry
>>adopted the word byte for 6 bits. The originator made it 8 bits which
>>has lasted and is the standard. In hardware, are there any non 8 bit
>>byte devices?
>
>
> You are off-the-chart stupid. A 6-bit byte is *still* a byte, whether
> it's represented in octal or not. The "originator" of the term "byte" did
> *not* specify it as 8-bits. In fact it was IBM that standardized on
> 8-bits, *after* the term was already in use. Sheesh!
>
>
>>Do you use 2629 code? Hollerith punched cards? if not, why not? I
>>want, no I demand all computers today be equipped with a Hollerith
>>punched card reader that uses 2629 code.
>
>
> Stupid is as stupid types.
>
> Anyone else reading along will see that you're hopeless and won't go down
> the quagmire you call a road. I feel sorry for anyone who has to pick up
> your messes.
>

My 1976 "encyclopedia of computer science" has this definition (p.817):
" 'Byte' is the usual term where the machines addressable storage
segment is designed to hold one alphanumeric character, and is hence 6,
7, or 8 bits long"

and on p.1356 has:
"the term 'byte' is used in reference to a bit string which is of the
size corresponding to the symbol representation in a particular system.
Thus, there are computers with 6-bit bytes, but today one expects 8-bit
bytes"

QED

Cheers
Terry