Re: CE compliance testing in the UK
From: keith (krw_at_att.bizzzz)
Date: 02/14/05
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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:38:29 -0500
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:02:57 +0000, Clarence_A wrote:
>
> "keith" wrote
>> Clarence_A wrote:
>> > "keith" wrote
>> >> Rich Grise wrote:
>> >> > John Woodgate wrote:
>> > <snip>
>> >
>> >> It's government mandated stuff. Of course it's fluff.
>> >> > I'm ISO9000 compliant, right now.
>> >> I doubt it. DO you have the little certification sticker?
>> > Perhaps I should send him one! NBD!
>> >> > So, probably, are most of you.
>> >> I am, but the way you talk here, I seriously doubt you are.
>> >> > Certification is another matter - that's for the big-bucks
>> > anal-retentive
>> >> > bureaucrats.
>> >> If you're not certified then you're not ISO 9K compliant.
> End
>> > of story.
>> >> > Do what you say, say what you do, and meet the customer
> spec.
>> >> Nope. You'd better study some more.
>> >> > That's pretty much it.
>> >> Nope. There is much more fluff to it than simply meeting the
>> > customer's
>> >> spec. In fact that's not even a part of it.
>> >> -- Keith
>> >
>> > I have been an ISO900 Auditor, and Rich has it right except
> for
>> > the need to pay the high fees for a certificate.
>>
>> Nope. When ISO first came out I was involved in getting the
> processes
>> documentation set up. In fact we were the first site certified
> (first
>> company too, I believe) and my processes were the ones used in
> the
>> certification audit. The result of the processes didn't have
> high quality
>> though, since the project had been canceled before the audit,
> but audit it
>> we did.
>>
>> > (And the regular
>> > audits.) But you are not going to get any recognition for
> doing
>> > it right, the credit only comes from jumping through hoops for
> a
>> > price. The entire ISO program is a waste of time and money.
>> > I have also written the documents for several companies, It is
> not
>> > at all difficult, just apply the common sense which is so rare
>> > now- days!
>>
>> That's where he's wrong. I agree, it has nothing to do with
> quality,
>> rather setting up hoops and jumping through them. Sure, the ISO
> 9000
>> process *can* be used to improve quality, but there is nothing
> inherent in
>> it that *does* produce product that is "defect free".
>>
>> > Follow a few sound rules, be honest and as Rich says:
>>
>> Proper quoting would be *so* much easier to read.
>>
>> > "I did a not inconsiderable amount of research into this
> "ISO9000" stuff
>> > not too long ago. It turns out, it's primarily bureaucratic
> fluff. I'm
>> > ISO9000 compliant, right now. So, probably, are most of you.
>> > Certification is another matter - that's for the big-bucks
>> > anal-retentive bureaucrats. Do what you say, say what you do,
> and meet
>> > the customer spec. That's pretty much it."
>> >
>> > If you disagree, publish the ISO Requirement Documents which
> show what
>> > you are disputing! (I have read the requirements, except for
> the
>> > payment of fees, it isn't in there!)
>>
>> GMAFB! The documents are all online for anyone who wants a
> tranquilizer.
>> Don't pull that "cite" crap. You can easily find it yourself.
>
> Of course they are, but you don't even know where they are do you?
>
>> Back to Rich; If he's not certified he's not "ISO 9000
> compliant". End of
>> story.
>
> I hereby Certify "Rich Grise" to be ISO 9000 compliant, and that
> he has met all requirements in HIS standards and procedures.
>
> Clarence Albert, as Auditor!
> -----------------------------
> OKAY, Now he's certified!
> I'll send a bill.... (:>)
>
>> Add to that the fact that ISO has nothing to do with delivering
> the
>> customer what they want or need, or the quality of the
> deliverables, in
>> fact. All that's needed is a documented process, documentation
> to show
>> that the process is followed, and a measurement system that is
> used to
>> refine the process (and a pool of money to pay for the
> certificate). ISO
>> is about processes, not quality. You can make 100% crap and be
> ISO
>> certified in good standing. The auditors are tickled pink as
> long as
>> the crap process is followed (and they get their cut).
>>
>> The bottom line is that Rich is all wrong about ISO 9000. Well,
> except
>> the "fluff" part.
>> --
>> Keith
>
> I know I did appreciate the $1,000 a day payment for doing an
> audit. I was very PRO ISO9000 for that result! Followed all the
> rules to the letter.
>
> AFAICS that was the only result! I got paid!
Thank you for being honest.
-- Keith
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