Re: OT: Dogbert's New Ruling Class Newsletter, April, 2005

Kryten wrote:

"Scott Stephens" <scottxs@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

Kryten wrote:

There is a phenomena...known as the "Double Whammy". First the target is subtly insulted. If they protest, you claim to be "just joking".

So all the people who buy his books and enjoy them for wry humour are in fact being subtly insulted. So subtly that they don't notice it?

No, its *you* that say I am misunderstanding Scott Adams "humor" as politically-motivated derision.

Are users of violent pornography "insulted" by the "artist" when they get off on it? Drug addicts "insulted" by the pushers they patronize?

The 2nd insult is being accused of not being able to discern what is serious and what is a joke 


Well that had crossed my mind.
Not that I wish to insult you.

eh eh, oh no, ..., No! You wouldn't want to insult me or insinuate I'm a neurotic, tormented, Nazi, fascist, paranoid, militant loon, now would you? ;-)

I find certain people often do this, not overtly realizing they do it. If they don't claim to be "just joking", they claim they were misunderstood.

So you you've met lots of people who have cracked a joke, you've found an offensive meaning, told them so, they've said "just joking" or "you've misunderstood". 

Not *lots* of people, Kryten. Just *certain* people, Kryten. ;-)

Maybe they are all out to be nasty to you for some inexplicable reason.

Maybe they were just joking and you assumed some malicious reasons. 

Perhaps because I'm paranoid?

Do you find these folks avoid talking to you afterwards?
Maybe they're all out to ostracise you, but then again maybe they are just all tired of being accused of being abusive communist bastards if they crack a joke. 

Perhaps its death rays from the Black Helicopters.

Both Scott Adams and Whoopy Goldberg have publicly advocated ridicule of political or religious opponents


Let's face it, most political and religious figures are rightly worthy of ridicule.

Jay Leno and David Letterman are equal-opportunity comedians. They pretty much attack and give both sides hell. But not the scoffers I'm denouncing. Scott Adams has a pretty equal list of villains in one DNRC newsletter, he trys to look neutral in regard to specific people and institutions. But when he mocks individuals and religion, it pretty much nails him as left-leaning, because the left is behind the efforts to purge "values" and morality from the culture.

But suffice to say if God shows up to fix any one problem, where does he stop fixing things?


Erm, whenever he sees fit - being the smartest entity in the universe.

If, as you say, he is the smartest entity in the universe, why do you question his will? I've heard it explained this way; God allowing evil things to happen is like a painful inoculation that makes a child cry, but is for their own good. God is much smarter than any parent, and we comparably, are more ignorant as an infant.

I'm not expecting God to fix everything down to a broken TV.

Just the biggies. War, disease, rape, murder, incest, mental illness...

Pain is a relative sensation. Some people are very sensitive, other, having endured tremendous hardship, no long let little things bother them. I'm sure some people would lose their minds and suicide if there TV were broken.

How could a good God tell an innocent, crying child their broken toy didn't rank, didn't merit attention and action? Isn't that pretty much what people start out as, and at the core still are? Big crying babies that expect to be satisfied?

Well he did wipe out an entire city (Sodom) for the sin of sodomy.
Seems a bit over the top, if they were mutually consenting.
There must have been some innocent kids there.

I didn't know you were a fundamentalist. I often wonder how I could be so stupid as to have believed all that stuff, until I catch myself taking for granted its true, like I was taught as a child.

Believing in nothing is no way to live life.


Just because one rejects implausible beliefs (God, Santa Claus, alternative medicine) doesn't mean one believes in nothing else. I don't believe in God but I do believe in living a good life: I don't murder people, steal, or hurl abuse at strangers sharing something they found funny.

So denouncing political propaganda and pornography ranks with murder and theft? Oh my, you must really think ill of me! If you don't believe in the Divine 10 commandments, what do you consider "good"? What everybody believes is "normal"? If everybody voted to institute slavery and murder Jews, would you say "Amen brothers!" and start following the herd? What is your basis for morality?

If you want to rationally object to God, there are better, mature and rational objections.

That is the situation I came to understand. They go around dropping big nuclear bombs on planets, such as the one they got the alien from.


The end of the story hinges on the bomb conversation, so they had to have a reason for carrying them.

Oh Please! Such a lame excuse! But, Alas, you force me to do a web search and I find (the horror!) I'm wrong and you're right!

http://www.allscifi.com/Topics/Info_3599.asp
mission to blow up unstable planets
detonate unstable, dangerous stars
detonate dying suns
destroy "unstable planets" which might threaten future colonization (http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Highrise/3756/jc/dks.htm)

I picked a bad fer instance. But there are militant, genocidal, nihilistic aliens. I know there are! Saberhagens Berserkers, Dr. Who's Daleks. I'm sure there is more. The universe is no doubt full of them!

Don't think, just laugh? Don't take life (yourself) seriously? That's no way to live.


Works for me, I'm happy, I get on with most people.

It didn't work for me, I tried it, wasn't happy, and didn't get on with most people.

It's a question of balance. You have to find it between taking nothing seriously, and taking everything too seriously. 

Yep.

Nietzsche experienced a lot of horror, yet still depicts heroic life. 


The main horror of having syphilis eating his body was self inflicted.
That's not heroism.

That was tragic. I wonder how many people join the military, and shortly lose their virginity to the first camp whores, in spite of their better judgment, so as not to endure the ridicule of their comrades? I would like to think that couldn't of happened to me, but I was so horny and eager to smoke and drink with the pack as a young man, I'm not so sure.

It isn't fair to judge the past century by the standards of our century.


I think in many cases, it is.
For example, murder and religious/political homicide are unethical now, and I feel entirely at ease judging Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc as very bad people indeed.

Yes, and we can judge Jefferson and Washington as slave owners too. They didn't free them on principle, and cut their economic throats when their competitors refused to free their slaves.

But you'll note the survivalists in Atlas Shrugged swore an oath not to expect others to live for them.


I'm less optimistic about the survivalists outside of fiction.

The road warriors, post-men, the nihilistic loners, yep. The men of honor that cooperate with like-minded neighbors, the pilgrims and refugees fleeing tyranny and oppression - they are "survivalists" too.

You just seem to be so terribly unhappy with the world for some reason.

Fraud, meanness and stupidity. Evil.

There's a lot of it about.
If you let it turn you into a scowling unhappy bitter twisted soul, hurling abuse into your computer, then you've let the disease manifest a symptom.

I'm expressing my convictions, denouncing the destroyers of civilization. Perhaps some people don't recognize degrading pornography and subtle political propaganda when they see it.

"Normal people"? Is that a worthy aspiration, to be "Normal"? Is one "Normal" by polling one's peers to make value judgments and conforming?


Normal as in being a polite citizen of the net and being able to take a joke at face value.

If I don't agree with you, I'm not a polite citizen of the net, and if I don't laugh at what you call a joke, take it at face value, I'm not "normal"?

I don't want to be "normal". But I know I shouldn't offend you, but respectfully dissent.

Normal as in not being intense and creepy.

Nietzsche was intense and creepy. I like intense and creepy. I don't look it (often wish I had the Ozzy look), but I feel intense and creepy =) Bwhahhahahaahhaa...

Just imagine if you posted a link to something that tickled you, only to have someone ranting what an evil *** you are. It must be quite scary and disconcerting. I mean, how can they tell that you are not a dangerous paranoid angry abusive psychopath?

I would get scared if physical threats were made. I would tune out. Go find a fundamentalist Islamic group to accuse of militant intolerance, not rowdy Libertarian Americans! But being intense over core values I hold as a virtue. Not taking things seriously that aught to be taken seriously, like politics and philosophy, consequently art and expression, I think is a vice.

I'm not the only one to cuss and spew labels around. And if I want to label and cuss someone, I do it (then often regret and apologize). I don't make deceitful insinuations like you have about me. I think that's dishonest and dirty.

We'd like to try nudging you to a door for you to turn the key.

Take care you don't "nudge" a porcupine that wants to be left free and independent.


There you are again. I mean a polite helping hand, you see a bullying shove to conformity.

Yep. We understand one another. I don't want your "help" being "normal". I like my opinions, my intensity, and my creepy =)

By all means remain free and independent.

Just less ranting at people trying to share things that made them laugh.

You want to hear ranting about jokes and humor? Go find an ethnic or religious minority, one of the sacrosanct victim classes, and make an ethnic joke. See what happens! Insist you were just good-natured teasing them!

Some people just don't take a joke well, because they've been victimized. I've been (still probably am) persecuted for being different. I feel towards left-leaning scoffers the same as a victim-class about ethnic jokes.

I don't believe people that value being "normal" are really happy anyways. If they are happy, it happiness borrowed on others, not created in themselves. Like a laugh-track on a crappy TV show, it gets old and stale fast.


I know that depressed people 

There you go agin insinuating I'm sick. Oh please!

see nothing wrong with their own world view and
it is everybody else who is wrong. If other people are happy it's because they're too stupid to know better and their happiness isn't real anyway. That would mean they'd got something right and you hadn't. 

Shyeeeiiit!

And you say "We"? Are "We" royalty Kryten? Or do you want to make me feel alone and isolated, and you represent popular opinion?


Hmm, well 'we' meaning everyone who isn't leaping to agree with your postings.
I've not seen anyone say "right on Scott, you've spotted the commie bastards too!"

Shall I go find some? I suspect I could go to libertarian, Objectivist and religious forums, make some people aware of Scott Adams "jokes" about individuals and religious, who would then post a "right on!".

But I'm comfortable standing alone. In fact, I'm proud I can!

On the other hand, quite a few people opine you are reading far too much into simple cartoons. 

I'm proud I'm sensitive to subtly too!

I'm not trying to make you feel alone and isolated, maybe you already feel that way.

I often do. So few, so very few can appreciate Nietzsche or Rand's heroic sense of life, rationality and morality.

Hurling abuse at people isn't going to improve your lot.

Conforming with the herd would improve my lot in the short run. Till the herd plunges over the cliff.

If I wanted to make you feel alone and isolated, I could do my bit by ignoring you. 

Perhaps there are better things for both of us to do than pointlessly argue.

However, I've been through bad times when I felt knee deep in assholes, and I've known people scowl themselves into nervous breakdowns. They recover, but are never as strong as they were before. Just like a cup handle that's been repaired.

I think my scowling is cathartic, like Adam's wry humor you appreciate so much. I get to see how you think and what your values are, and you test mine.

So on the contrary, I have spent some of my life engaging you in dialogue hoping you'll become happier, and that as you feel less inclined to vent your spleen then it will make everyone happier.

Just admonish me to be polite and respectful. Don't waste your time insinuating I'm nuts because I don't share your taste in "humor" and philosophy.

but I'm going to call a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer (if not a communist).


That's like an alcoholic saying I'll try not to be an abusive drunk but I'm going to carry on being abusive when I see fit. Except without the alcohol involved.

So I'm "like" an alcoholic drunk because I will denounce left-leaning nihilistic scoffers? Oh please!

Such sophistry! Lord have mercy! =)

If you don't like what you read, then read something else.
If you found yourself wading through sewage, you don't stay there wallowing in it cursing everyone, or go on the net telling everyone what a huge pool of *** you have found. 

Yep, I do! That's me! Creepy and intense! =)

Get out, clean it off, go someplace nicer. Use your
superior intellect to find some real happiness, then tell everyone about it. 

Ok, Nietzsche! Rand! Alive! Real! Creepy! Intense!

Everyone has plenty of their own *** to deal with. 

Well, you've dealt with me, haven't you? ;-)

Scott

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POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

There is no giant behind the devastation of the world—only a shriveled creature with the wizened
face of a child who is out to blow up the kitchen because he cannot steal his cookies and eat them, too. - Ayn Rand
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