Re: For the Windoze haters - VS2005

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 08:07:52 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 20:50:00 +1000, The Real Andy
<will_get_back_to_you_on_This@> wrote:

Whilst I know most Engineers avoid MS, I have just started writing
some trial software using Visual Studio 2005 and I have to say that So
far I am really impressed. Until today, my only introduction to 2005
was what has been spoken at the limited number of MS events I have
attended, and the fact that I installed one of the beta versions
(never used). Today I installed the release version of VS2005.

Well, I must say that the install process had me cursing. MS really
fucked this one I thought, but only if you were stupid enough to
install the pre-release beta, which I did. However, a google, and
three links later + a download from MS solved all pre-release beta
uninstall greif.

Anyhow, I had heard some rumours that MS had consulted developers
about what they want this time round, and after having used many dev
environments (many OS, many platforms and embedded) I would have to
say MS have pulled out all the stops this time and produced probably
one of the best dev tools I have ever used.

Now within the standard 8 hours (including beer time) I have for the
first time produced a GUI that even the GUI developers were impressed
by (of course not a fully functioning app), and I am not a GUI
developer. Whilst all controls are relatively basic, all are easy to
derive from. The help is second to none, and google provides a
plethora of examples. Whilst I am not overly familiar with c# (I am a
c++ programmer) I can honestly say that it did not take long to pick
up. What amazed me the most, is how quickly you can throw together a
very professional looking app.

I think when it comes to productivity, MS is going to be very hard to
beat. This is probably what struck me most about VS2005.

However, after all the praise, it will be interesting to see what time
will show when it comes to reliability, support, apllication
performance ect. Whilst a single day of play will not reveal its full
capabilities and pitfalls, i am fairly sure that it will be a good
product.

Having come from an engineering backround, and knowing how much
enginers despise windows (i was like that once) I recommend having a
look at the trial.


Disclaimer: Before everyone starts flaming me about being pro MS, I
still currently develop on embedded Linux apps as well as various
other embedded platforms. When it comes to choosing OS and platform my
foremost consideration is time to market and cost, as well as
audience. So naturally MS always plays a significant part in my work,
considering that probably 90% of my audience are windows users.



Is the final C# application a compiled .exe, or is it a Java-like
thing that needs a runtime system? What all files/libraries/dll's
would an application involve, as delivered to an end-user?

It is compiled to an exe, but that it aint. IT is similar to java from
what I can gather and is 'Just In Time' compiled. There is a tool
supplied with the .net framework called NGEN that will compile it to a
native executable. Most of the libraries are
supplied/installed/registered with the dotnet framework. If you use
any Win API's, the same thing applies with previous MS stuff, ie ship
the dll. In saying that, the version 2 of the framework seems to be
pretty complete, including a comms port class which MS exlcuded in
V1.0 and 1.1.



I've done a couple of Win gui apps using PowerBasic Forms, and it took
me a lot less than 8 hours from dead start to do something useful (a
fully functional app, not just the window dressing!) and it does
produce a single, small, clean, and fast true .exe file.

Im all fairness to MS, i have not really done much c#, so this is all
a big learning curve for me. What has impressed me is that the lurning
curve is very quick. The 8 hours i had spent on it were trying to cram
every single control into an app and make it do something. Today i did
a little comm port app to throw some dirty packets into a fibre
network.

Today i started finding some of the more annoying features, such as
intellisense automagically putting stuff into your code where you dont
want it. That and the fact that when i press backspace it goes back
one space, rather than a tab when i have tabbed in. But these little
quirks are outweighed by the productivty gains and simplicity of
developing a full featured app.

As others have noted, most engineers must use Windows, as much as we
hate it.

I just kinda got the feeling that most here hated windows and were pro
linux.


John

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