Re: Digital Osci and Logic Analyzer


"Rich Webb" <bbew.ar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:t5pc32hq62cmgjrqag3ss4i7f4jdsvuq3u@xxxxxxxxxx
On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 02:43:39 -0500, "Abstract Dissonance"
<Abstract.Dissonance@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

How complicated is it to create a simple pc based oscilloscope and logic
analyzer(excluding the pc software)?

Does it just consist of getting a ADC and interface for sending the data
to
the pc? I'm looking at trying to make one in a similar way to what is
done
on this site:

http://www.fpga4fun.com/digitalscope.html

I figured that the main the parts are the ADC, the probe, and the method
of
sending the information(which I think is the hardest part at high data
rates?)? I've seen some ADC's that have sample rates of over 100Msps
which
should give me a 50Mhz bandwidth? Although these aren't cheep I've also
seen some upwards of 1Gsps that would give me a larger bandwidth if I
needed
it.

As a rule of thumb, estimate the useable bandwidth as being limited by
one-tenth of the ADC sample rate, not one-half. That lets you recover
(more or less) the fifth harmonic of the signal of interest right at
Nyquist. For some commercial examples, there's the Fluke 199C: 2.5 Gsps,
overall bandwidth 200 MHz; and Tek TDS2012: 1 Gsps and 100 MHz. So for
your


Hmm. The shannon sampling theorem says you only need to sample 2x to
reconstruct the sample exactly? (i.e., need to sample twice as fast as the
bandwidth you want to capture?)

Lets suppose I decide to buy a 1Gsps ADC(which isn't going to happen any
time soon) and I have a probe that works properly with the ADC. How would
I
go about storing/streaming all those samples? This would require a memory
chip be able to work down at 1ns or so? I was thinking I could use
several
gigs of pc memory in parallel to reduce the latency and increase total
sample size to a few seconds... is this possible? What about encoding for
a
digital stream? do something like rle on the bit stream where 01 one
would
store 2 bits as one and its number of repetitions? (need to use 2 bits
atleast so things like a clock signal are encoded efficiently)

You don't need to capture or store more samples than you need for one
display screen.

? not for a digital logic analyzer? Also It would be nice to have some
memory even for an oscilloscope since one might want look at the history of
the signal? Maybe even zoom in and zoom out would be nice?


Assume that your display area is 500 pixels x 500 pixels at ten
divisions each for horizontal and vertical. No matter how fast you
sample, you've only that area to work with. For each time step (vertical
column) you have several choices.

You can decimate your sample rate down to where you grab just one
instantaneous sample at that tick and store/plot only that value. For
example, at 1 msec/div and 50 pixels/div that's just 500 samples at a
lazy 50 Ksps rate.

You could take, say, ten equally spaced samples within the column
interval and plot the mean or median value. For the 1 msec/div example,
that's acquiring 5000 samples at a 500 Ksps rate.

Or, sample at full rated speed for the entire sample interval and plot
the extremes. If that's handled at the front end, only two values per
column need to be sent or stored

I'm kinda curious to how high speed logic analyzers overcome some of these
problems?

By only needing to store a 1 or 0 for each sample point, and often by
not storing every sample, just the transition times.


but if you have 1Gsps as some ADC's run at then thats storing 1Gb/s... so
for 10 seconds for digital logic capture for a logic analyzer you would need
10Gb/s or about 1.25GB/s... and thats just for one channel ;/

Another thing I wanted to know is how digital logic signals are "sampled"
in
logic analyzers? Surely one doesn't need anything more than a 1-bit ADC
to
convert the line signal? (therefor one doens't even need an ADC since it
would act more like a buffer than an real ADC?)


I was thinking about buying a ADC that does about 40Msps and try it out
just
to see if it was going to work but and make a homemade probe to play with
it. It doesn't seem like a terribly complex project but there seems to be
a
lot of technical issues involved.

New gizmo that might be of interest (although at about 2 Msps)
http://www.quickfiltertech.com/html/qf4a512-dk.php

Mouser has the dev kits in stock. Related article at
http://www.circuitcellar.com/library/print/0306/Cantrell-188/index.htm

More targeted at data acquisition and analysis than as an o'scope core
but would give you a working platform to experiment with.


Yeah... but I don't see it being really any different than what I have
mentioned at the top... The do the post filtering on the device but that
can easily be handled by the pc. I'm just interested in getting the data to
the pc where I can then have as much fun with it as I want.

The sample rate bothers me though as its to low for what I need. I want to
sample atleast a 40mhz signal so this won't help much and all it seems like
to me is a glorified ADC.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

Thanks,
Jon


.

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