Re: OT: What the hell ever happened to Iraq and Afghanistan?


"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4442B9BE.43A7E2A1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Keith wrote:

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:49:46 -0700, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

Ken Smith wrote:

[snip]

Undoubtedly, we can enter and occupy Iran. But we will incur major
losses while doing so.

Will those losses be high enough to politically force the US
government to
pull out. A democracy can only say "we can" with the consent of the
people. This time it may be withheld.

I don't recall voting on the Iraq thing. And yet, there we are.

You are stupid, it seems. Your representatives voted for you. That's
sorta the way it works in a republic. The descision was made, and you
whine and by doing so make things even worse.


Please read before posting.

That was my point in response to Ken. "We" didn't get asked to vote on
Iraq. Our representatives did. I'm not willing to live with the
"decision was made, live with it" attitude. I'm not a pushover and I
don't follow the Washington elite blindly. I never gave my consent, or
withheld it.

George has at least a year in which to do as he (or his puppet-masters)
pleases. The current administration doesn't seem to think it needs
anyone's approval, be it congress or the courts to do as it damned well
pleases.

He *has* the approval of congress.

Correct. But not mine.


And why do you think your opinion is important? If congress needs your
approval then wtf are you bitching in this NG? Face it... you are not as
important as you want to be.

Aren't you paying attention? Show me
the brilliant bulb that's going to cut off support for the war.
Teh Democrats only wish to whine (like you). No plans, just whine.

Here's a plan. Assume we have 200,000 troops in Iraq. We can ship them
out at a rate of 50,000 per month and be out of there before labor day.

Do you have the brain cells to see the only logical result of this? I think
not or you wouldn't even dare to suggest some crap like this. Liberals
screwed us up in vietnam and now you think we should let you do the same
with iraq?


That's better than Bush has ever proposed. A plan requires a schedule
and budget. Every "plan" (to use the word loosely) for training an Iraqi
security force has never included either. No numbers of troops to train,
budget to train them and projected completion time. So, to date, we have
NO plan to secure Iraq and exit.


Hmm... no plan huh? Funny how you so easily overlook all the progress that
has been made in iraq.


You know, the problem with you and people like you is that even if you have
some potentially valid points you completely ruin it buy adding your own
political crap in the mix. Its fine if you don't like Bush but that doesn't
mean you need to throw your logic out the window. Just cause you don't like
Bush doesn't mean everything in the world relating in some way to him IS
crap or will be crap. You expect "us" to debate with you and what you
assume is your logical and rational arguments but you think we are so stupid
we cannot see that you are blinded by your hate for Bush? So even if you
did say something that has merit at some point no one is going to give a
second thought cause you surround it with your BS.

For example. Personally I think Bush isn't that bad of a person... I
definately don't think he is as stupid as many want to believe. I do think
he has done a poor job in many area's and might have alterior motives in a
lot of things he does(But note I have no real proof of this so I do not
assume it is true like many do).

EVEN IF the war with iraq was based on false information IT IS STILL A GOOD
THING!!!! (in the a much broader sense than you probably could ever
realize). I think Bush is no better or worse than Clinton. They have
different strengths and weaknesses... But I'm sure you think Clinton was a
god.

What Bush has addressed a problem that has long been overdue. Unfortunately
the world needs to resolve its conflicts over religion if we ever hope to
get anywhere. We can't sit back and expect everything to be hunky dory.
Maybe in 50 to 100 years we can put all this crap behind us actually get
somewhere. If we all just turn a blind eye like you want and ignore all the
troubles then the problem will only fester and lead to worse problems.

Basicaly, your approach(and many) to conflict is identical to someone with,
say, an infection. Instead of getting treatment immediately you ignore the
problem and hope it will go away... maybe it does... but years later guess
what? Its back and theres no ignoring it. Maybe the treatment at first was
just amputation... but now you must pay with your life.... is it worth it?
Maybe... Maybe not.


What is the real reason why you hate the war in Iraq? Cause Bush lied? If
thats the case then you are as arrogant and conceited as you seem. There is
absolutely no real proof that he is the monster you people think he is. You
intentionally overlook the good things he has done to exaggerate the bad
things. Cause of all the soldiers that die? BS. I doubt you care about
them at all. These soldiers sacrifice there life for our freedom and you
want to slap them in the face by turning tail and running. You don't care
about the hundreds of thousands of iraqies that by Saddam either cause you
didn't want to go to war in the first place. So you can't say you don't
want to see people die. (because more americans would die by terrorists in
the future if we didn't try and do something about it)

So I can't seem to find a logical reason why you think the war is bad.
Ofcourse there might be one though... You might say something like "Its
wrong to interfer with other nations", etc... but these are philosophical
points and just cause someone disagree's with you on them doesn't give you
the right to call them "Butchers", "Terrorists", etc.

It seems to me that probably the reason you and others really don't want war
is because it affects your way of life. It makes you scared that might
loose a lot of the luxuries you have. You don't wanna have to be forced to
recycle incase of we have a shortage on something. You don't want to be
scared of dieing or being in a violent situation because of the war. You
don't wanna have to pay higher fuel prices or expensive fight tickets for
your 2-week vacations to exotic places. I could go on and on for the
reasons that you don't want war... how it affects the things you call
"liberties" and "needs"... when in reality they are luxuries. Basicaly it
boils down to the fact that you don't want your good life to be turned
upside down.

Those reasons are pretty arrogant and selfish. They, are ofcourse, natural
to have as everyone does. Some people are more willing to sacrifice for
others... seems you are not. The problem is that instead of admitting it or
atleast being quite you go ahead and launch a smokescreen of attacks... you
think people are stupid and cannot see through it and to some degree you are
right.


I hope that the war leads(well, what it will eventually lead to, which I
think is going to be a world war) to better insight into why we do the crap
we do. Why are people so wasteful, why do we use religion to kill, why we
focus more on satisfying ourselfs instead of working towards a more pratical
human exsistance. The fact is that many humans haven't really progressed
much past the caveman. We all still believe we are the center of the
universe no matter how much we can intelectually trick ourselfs. As soon as
people realize that the only way humanity will mean anything is if we all
work together towards a common goal(which is obviously the continual
existiance of humanity) that all the things we have accomplished will be for
naught. Hopefully one day we will also realize that religion doesn't play a
part in this goal. I personally think religion has been the single most
worse factor to hurt humanity, although it has done some good things its
hurt much more than it has helped. I think that a "stupid" person cannot
handle religion yet an inteligent person doesn't have any need for it.

Anyways, I've wrote to much ;/

lol.

I'm going to go masturbate or something! j/k.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------------------
definition: recursion; see recursion.

Jon


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