Re: Circuit simulation software

On 21 Jun 2006 02:05:51 -0700, cbarn24050@xxxxxxx wrote:


Kevin Aylward wrote:
cbarn24050@xxxxxxx wrote:
Kevin Aylward wrote:
Getting anything usefull from a simulator is usually much harder
than building the circuit and mearuring its performance.

Oh dear...

You've not designed an analogue ic with 10,000 transistors have you?

Your right I haven't, which 1 did you do?

I am working on one right now. Quite impossible without simulation.

Quite so.

This thread has nothing to do with chip design.

Its to do with analogue design. IC design is being illustrated to show
just how daft the idea that:

My answer addresses the question that was ASKED not the one you wanted
asking.


"getting anything usefull from a simulator is usually much harder han
building the circuit and mearuring its performance."

is.

With all due respect to the writer, the writer of that statement has
very limited knowledge of professional analogue design.

Again the OP wanted something CHEAP, not something professional.



How do you propose to do worst case corners or Monty Carlo to verify
that your rats nest custom tweaked, one off circuit actually works
with component variations?

No reason why to cant simulate a curcuit after you have it working if
you needed that information but the components with the biggest
variation are semiconductors and iv'e not seem a Monty Carlo test that
included their variables but it's been a while so maybe.

Again, with all due respect, all this shows is that you are quite
ignorant of 10,000s professional analogue designers and the tools such
designers use on a daily basis. Monty carlo and worst case simulations
are de-facto standard to produce a reliable product in short time
scales. Many tools have specific support for these features.

You didnt actually answer the point.



This debate is pretty much futile as its unlikely you will be able to
take your blinkers off and accept what is actually known and done by
10,000s of professional analogue designers. Its 40 hours a week running
sims. That's just the way it is, mate.

Thats my point it takes an awfull lot of effort to get anything usefull
from a simulator.




You simply can not design analogue i.c.s without extensive
simulation. Ideally, bench work is kept to a bare minimum.
Typically, analogue ics are so well designed using only simulation
that bench work often consists of simply verifying a few bits and
bobs and making the data ***. This is way it is.

Again this thread has nothing to do with chip design.

Its about analogue design, and as such, for anything other than a micky
mouse 2 transister circuit, simulation tools are, in todays market
place, indespensible.

Again you didn't read the question that was asked. Cheap AND usefull?
Ihaven't seen it yet.




Kevin Aylward B.Sc.
431infoEXTRACT@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

"There are none more ignorant and useless,than they that seek answers
on their knees, with their eyes closed"

Sounds like we have a reincarnation of Royal Fuchs or crazy frog.
PLONK!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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