Re: job thing, maybe


"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:qn8jp2l2rkfbbinkmutkkimm8p1b6mb35q@xxxxxxxxxx
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 00:01:25 GMT, nico@xxxxxxxxxxx (Nico Coesel)
wrote:

Joerg <notthisjoergsch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jan 2007 16:29:24 GMT, nico@xxxxxxxxxxx (Nico Coesel)
wrote:


Joerg <notthisjoergsch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

T'is the American way. Love it. When friends in Europe asked how our
contracts look like I answered that there usually is none if you are
an
employee. Jaws dropped. Then I said that a significant part of the
pay

Indeed. Over here you really need a lawyer to check employment
contracts. I've never had a contract which is really up to date with
the latest changes in the law.


Virtually nobody has employment contracts here, with the exception of
high-up CEOs maybe, and members of labor unions who work under a
blanket contract. Hiring is often a rather informal process ("sounds
good, let's try it"), and under California law an employee can be
dismissed at any time for any or no reason. Discharged employees
receive state-funded unemployment compensation unless discharged "for
cause", namely for a gross infraction. Simple incompetance is not
"cause."


Yep. In biz lingo this is called "at will". Which goes both ways,
meaning the employee can waltz in one morning and simply quit. Or simply
not show up anymore. I had that happen with a tech once, couldn't
believe he would throw away an excellent career opportunity this easy.
Tried my best to talk him into wising up but it didn't work.

At such moments a contract is very usefull to prevent people from
taking steps they may regret later. Besides, the "you're fired!" sword
of Damocles sometimes makes it difficult to deal with US companies.
Nobody dares to make a decision. Everything even silly things a tech
over here can decide for himself seems to go through endless
committies and meetings so apparently in the end no one can be traced
/ blamed / fired if something goes wrong.

Strange. My experience with British and French companies is the exact
opposite... they take forever to get anything done. The "I can't be
fired" attitude is hardly conducive to responsible behavior. The guys
we work with in Ireland are pretty good; you can have a 10-minute
teleconference with them and get things decided. Limited statistics, I
admit. The US aerospace companies are amazing; almost everybody is
competant, decisive, and nice.

No sane employer would fire people who make good decisions. And no
sane employer would expect anyone to be right 100% of the time. And no
sane employer would *not* fire an incurable screwup.

Job mobility, one consequence of layoffs and firings, breaks up the
static friction in the system and lets people find better fits to
their skills. Being fired from the Chief Engineer position of a pretty
big company was the best thing that ever happened to me, and the
reason I own my own company now.

During my working life I worked for 3 Fortune 100 companies, at each one for
in excess of 10 years. I will say without a moment's hesitation that the
firm with an implied "job for life" contract (a large photographic firm) had
the most poorly qualified work force, bordering on completely incompetent.
The firm with the reputation for being "unfriendly to older workers" had by
far the best work force (AND the highest expectations and pay scale.) The
one in the middle was OK until it was purchased by a french firm, and then
it was downhill all the way, as the french management brought the US
operation up to french standards.

Which of the three firms is healthiest today? The "unfriendly" one. Which
one is on its deathbed? The "job for life" one. The french one? Their manage
ment is blaming their problems on the "stupid american customers" who don't
understand the inherent superiority of all things french.

The implied "job for life" contract is the kiss of death. When the going
gets rough, the cream of the crop leave, because they are otherwise
employable. Who stays? Ask GM.




.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Contract and redundancy
    ... there is a test of reasonableness, but if it is overridden by the ... contract terms then much can become reasonable that was not reasonable ... the employer will often settle with the employee before the case gets to the ... a mobility clause is generally considered reasonable ...
    (uk.legal)
  • Re: Code rights for employees (was Re: SCO identifies code?)
    ... studios only own what the artists have granted them at the time. ... > if eBay's contract stipulated that should the author leave eBay, ... If an insurance agent strikes out on his own and takes his ... client base from his previous employer he has deprived that employer of ...
    (Debian-User)
  • Re: Legal battle looms between GC and Yeowart
    ... dismissed then restrictive covenants in one's contract of employment ... You would be claiming for Breach of Contract by claiming unfair ... Employer would either need to re-employ you in a similar role, ... when dismissing him or her. ...
    (uk.railway)
  • Re: company not paying paye?
    ... HMRC with all the facts and the wrong decision had been ... We agree that the "employer" ... the sale contract between the two parties ... allows the customer to pay the VAT amount to the shopkeeper.... ...
    (uk.business.accountancy)
  • Re: Employment Contract Question
    ... My employer has reduced my holiday entitlement stating that the ... to have 25 in the contract - however he would give me the other 4. ...
    (uk.legal)