Re: PIC / PICAXE-controlled LED Beat flasher

John Barrett wrote:
"Anthony Fremont" <spam-not@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:12tpmhu70t9hff0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
John Barrett wrote:
"Anthony Fremont" <spam-not@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message


I think you should still use shift registers. A 74HC595 should
supply all the current you need to drive 8 LEDs. Since you can
clock them at up to 100MHz, it should be fast enough for you. ;-)
Just try reload it at least 60 - 70 times second. Don't let anyone
tell you that 20 or 30Hz PWM update rate is fast enough, it's
flicker city. I don't use AVRs myself (no reason, just started
with PICs first), but any PIC with an ADC can easily take a reading
thousands of times per second.

30hz ?? why so slow ?? I run PWM at 10-100khz or better for my servo
motor controller -- no flicker here !! (hardware PWM generator --
not software !!)

That's why I told him NOT to use a rate that low. ;-) I don't think
hardware PWM would be a big help here, but maybe I'm missing
something. When using these things, it seems like one always has to
keep thinking outside the box, that's what I love about them.


And why add shift registers when you can direct drive or multiplex
and save the chips and the code needed to drive them ?? (direct
drive

To learn how to use them, and to save on pin count. My way only
needs three I/O pins.

even the smallest AVR and PIC have 13 I/O pins (unless you get one of
the 8 pin parts -- does PIC still have one of those in production ??)

The 12F683 is a cool 8-pin part. Don't be fooled by the 12F it's really a
16F core, but Microchip has funny schemes about numbering. I recently
posted some code and schematics in ABSE using one. Believe the chip is far
more capable than I demonstrated.

needs no external components except limit resistors, and multiplex
takes 3 transistors.. one for each color bank... too simple !!)

True, if you have a ton of spare pins.

13 pins isnt a lot on an 18 pin device -- nicely utilizes the
available resources :)

LOL It sure does, hope you didn't want to do anything else. ;-)

Though you see numbers like that allot around the net, 25mA is an
awful lot of current for most LEDs. Are you using some that really
require that kind of current. I have a bunch of blue LEDs that
will hurt your eyes at only a couple of mA. I have a "super
bright" green one that seems to violate the known laws of
thermodynamics,
no trouble seeing that one outside on a bright sunny day. ;-)


Your eyes are incredibly more sensitive to green than they are to
blue and red -- found that out when I was researching color
balancing for RGB laser show systems.

That's true, but I think that 14,000mcd plays a part too. ;-)

sounds like the super whites we used for the light bar -- I think
they were like 100kmcd
(I didnt handle the LEDs -- just the code)

You didn't really explain how you want the other 20 LEDs to behave
exactly. Do they act as two groups that behave like first, but only
respond to higher audio levels?

all 3 banks act identically as a 0-10 level meter when a given bank
is enabled.. when a sufficiently strong pulse of sound is detected,
then the meter function switches to the next color bank -- this
makes the

I'll have to take your word for it, he was a bit vague on this for my
comfort level.

multiplex idea especially attractive since it seperates color
selection from level meter code, and enables the level meter code to
work correctly no matter what color is currently selected. the level
meter code will not have to be aware at all of the current color
selection. (with the direct drive, the level meter code would have
to use a different set of I/O pins for each color.. with shift
registers -- well thats just getting overly complicated for
something like this)

And using FFT and a DSP isn't overly complicating the problem? As I
see it, the "level meter code" has one purpose in life, and that is
to return the level of the signal (I assume by using an R/C low pass
operation to average the incoming signal and then using an ADC to
read the average level). It should have no idea what happens to the
information after that, much less a notion of banks of LEDs.

The main level code that called the "level meter code" should make
the determination of which bank to select based upon the returned
value. I would then have seperate code that had no purpose in life
other than to turn on the LEDs that it was commanded to do so. I
would use an 8 pin PIC, some op-amps to process the audio, and four
shift registers to drive the LEDs for about $5 not counting the
LEDs. But that's me and the way I see it.
:-)

You are right, the FFT/DSP was overkill -- a result of Johnno saying
he wanted to "detect a beat" which says to me something like the sound
activated DMX systems that can be configured to make state changes on
the sound of bass drum, cymbals, snare, etc

I know nothing about doing that, I would like to learn to use CPLDs or FPGAs
whichever is the best thing right now, seems like it might be CPLDs.



Sorry I can't help you too much on the AVR front, but if you want
to use a PIC and do it in assembler, I'll give you a hand.


hehehe the same algorhithms will work on a PIC or an AVR... I
program

Not written in assembler they won't. And translating would not be a
piece of cake. I only do assembler on the PIC, no C. I have done C
on 8051 and it's alright, but most things I tinker with don't
require tons of code so assembler is ok. It would be nice to have
readily available math routines sometimes though. :-) I've been
thinking about tinkering with some of the neato ARM thingys
available now, I would likely use C on those.

and algorithm is an algorithm -- essentially platform independent --
how you interface it to the hardware, THATS another story :)

Of course, but you know what I mean.



both so it doesnt matter to me except that I prefer the AVR for its
features, and the free C compiler !! I got burned out on assembly
programming YEARS ago doing 8047 and 8051 microcontrollers, with a
dash of Z80 and 80186 on the side (and to think.. the PC had only
been around a coupla years at that point !!)

My first "personal computer" was a COSMAC ELF I built in 78, and it
still works believe it or not, all 256 bytes of it. ;-) The first
PC I saw was when I was a youngster in the military, I saw IBM PCs
running CPM from external 8" floppy drives. Seems that M$ was late
delivering DOS 1.0 and IBM couldn't let the hardware sit, so they
delivered them without an OS. Some enterprising individuals figured
out how to make use of them until DOS came out. You should have
seen the documentation that came with each machine, amazing. Back
then I even saw the original idea that apple later ripped off to
make the MAC, the XEROX Star. Multiplexing is OK, but as soon as
the OP changes his mind about only one bank being on, it's all over.
Use the shift registers. ;-)

BROTHER !!! The elf was my first also -- though I didnt build mine --
bought it used from a neighbor.

If he changes his mind, thats not my problem, I tailored the solution
to his specifications, changes mean contract addendums and MORE MONEY
:)
Gonna go eat -- catch y'all later !!

Later, me too.


.

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