Re: 4017 Counter skips under load

On Jul 4, 8:54 am, jcargile2...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Jul 3, 3:14 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Jul 4, 6:50 am, jcargile2...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Jul 3, 1:24 pm, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

jcargile2...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Jul 2, 3:24 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jul 3, 7:11 am, jcargile2...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

I have a fairly simple circuit that consists of a 4017 decade counter
and nine relay/LED combinations. The relays are very small and the
circuit operates just fine with no load, or when I connect an LED to
the relay output. But when I try to operate the circuit under load
(it is being used to fire nichrome ignitors), then the counter simply
skips the loaded relay and moves right to the next output. So if I
send the counter a series of 5 clock pulses, and put a load on the
relay attached to output 3, then the count goes 1,2,4,5,6. The final
count ends up being one off, so it's almost like the output in
question doesn't exist. What I don't understand is why this is
happening, since the relay is what bears the load, not the 4017.
Shouldn't the output requirement on the counter be the same regardless
of what the relay is switching?

Yes, it should be, but only if you have used proper circuit physical
circuit layout techniques to ensure that there is no ground or power
bounce.
Think "star grounding" and power decoupling.
Very common trap for young players.

Dave.

I installed the final power setup (on the tests I just had the board
jumpered onto the power supply) and now it will fire the ignitors.
The problem is that the counter is now behaving irratically. It will
skip several counts when receiving a clock pulse and will jump around
with the slightest change in ground (even connecting a single lead
from the multimeter to any point on ground advances the count). I've
tried several different caps (.01-10 uF) connected directly to the
power leads of the 4017 with no luck. All of the info I can find on
decoupling keeps talking about selecting the capacitor based on
frequency. But I'm only sending a single pulse of about 25 ns every
10-20 seconds. Does this mean I can use a larger cap? I'm seriously
freaking out at this point cause I only have 24 hours to get this
working. Thanks for the help!

How on earth do you get a 25nsec pulse out of a CD4017? That's like
clocking a moped at 100mph.

Anyhow, since things seem to become desperate over there I can only
suggest to build it up again on an experimental board that has a ground
plane. And no, you do not have to select decoupling caps based on
frequency. A 0.1uF plus a nice 10uF electrolytic should do, more if your
power supply is wimpy.

Can you post schematic plus photo?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com-Hidequotedtext -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry, I mistyped. The clock pulse coming into the 4017 from the PC
parallel port is 25 ms in length.

Ah, the alarm bells start ringing right there, no pun intended.
You probably have ringing on your clock line from the PC. Keep the
lead from the parallel port as short as possible.
Are you able to view the signal with an oscilloscope?

Classic problem with PC parallel port driven equipment.

Dave.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Unfortunately I don't have access to a scope. This is the kit that
I'm using. The board itself is plugged directly into the parallel
port. I then have leads soldered on to the board at the resistors so
that I get a clean 12 volt signal from the parallel port. From there,
that signal is run via ethernet cable to the firing controllers. In
my initial tests, this setup worked fine with just an LED as the
load. Because of safety reasons, I can't have the laptop and thus
myself any closer to the controllers themselves.

<img src="http://kitsrus.com/jpg/k74v2_1.jpg";>

Ah, a picture tells a thousand words.

The board should work just fine *if* you power your load from an
entirely separate and *floating* power supply relative to the plugpack
or power supply which powers the board. You've said the board works
just fine with an LED load, so obviously something is amiss with the
power supply wiring for the load.

Dave.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: 4017 Counter skips under load
    ... But when I try to operate the circuit under load ... skips the loaded relay and moves right to the next output. ... Think "star grounding" and power decoupling. ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: 4017 Counter skips under load
    ... But when I try to operate the circuit under load ... skips the loaded relay and moves right to the next output. ... Think "star grounding" and power decoupling. ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: 4017 Counter skips under load
    ... But when I try to operate the circuit under load ... skips the loaded relay and moves right to the next output. ... lead from the parallel port as short as possible. ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: 4017 Counter skips under load
    ... But when I try to operate the circuit under load ... skips the loaded relay and moves right to the next output. ... Think "star grounding" and power decoupling. ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: 4017 Counter skips under load
    ... small and the circuit operates just fine with no load, ... connect an LED to the relay output. ... It will skip several counts when receiving a clock ... lead from the parallel port as short as possible. ...
    (sci.electronics.design)