Re: The Electric Car

On Aug 11, 7:09 am, MooseFET <kensm...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Google groups trouble trying 4th time:

On Aug 10, 8:52 pm, James Arthur <dagmargoodb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Aug 10, 5:29 pm, MooseFET <kensm...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Aug 10, 11:14 am, James Arthur <dagmargoodb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Aug 10, 6:43 am, MooseFET <kensm...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[..]

The economy is doing so-so at best. We have a mixed collection of
measures of it.

Indications are always mixed--it's quite impossible for all sectors to
simultaneously boom, as many are in competition.

Overall, growth, inflation, employment, etc. are as good as it gets.
If you're not happy now, you never will be.

You haven't looked closely enough. Right now the US is running a
large deficit and has quite low interest rates. These are both things
that in the short term stimulate the economy. It is like a car with
the gas pressed all the way to the floor and only gets up to 45 MPH.
It is a lot faster than I can run but still a lot less that should be
expected.

Exactly how fast do you think the economy should grow? The Federal
Reserve Board has been trying to *slow* the economy since mid-2004,
and that's still their focus today. Perhaps you should e-mail Mr.

It isn't the growth rate that bothers me. The car is going 45 MPH
that is a reasonable speed. It is the fact that the the foot is so
close to the floor that worries me.

But that's wrong--the Federal Reserve isn't stepping on the gas and
the pedal isn't anywhere close to the floor: they've been on the
brakes since mid-2004. That was my point above.


Bernanke:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/feedback.cfm

As for the deficit, I don't like it, but find it hard to understand
why you think it's related to GDP, or why 3% of GDP would make any
difference in the short haul. It won't.

I either don't understand what you are trying to state there or you
are trying to say that something that is well know to be true is
false. I will let you restate the above.

The GDP total of goods and services produced in the country. The
budget deficit relates to how much more the Federal government spends
than it takes in. a) They aren't the same thing. b) The deficit is,
in dollars, a small number compared to the economy as a whole, so I
don't understand why you think it's significant to the current
economy.



The US has a decreasing size of middle class. The working class is
seeing a net loss of standard of living. Most of the middle class is
also seeing a decrease in standard of living. The debt is piling up
and the average worker age is increasing. None of these are things by
them selves would be a major problem but combined they point to a
decline.

There is also a serious concentration of power and wealth happening.
The trend is towards a small number of companies being a big fraction
of the economy. This is never a good thing for the long term survival
of an empire. It leads to a fragile situation. With many small
companies, a mistake only impacts a small part of the economy.
Increasingly, a mistake by a company impacts a larger part of the
overal economy.

I understand you believe these things. I invite you to show the
quantitative basis for those beliefs.

It would help if you define some of your terms--what is "middle
class"?

The middle class usually taken to be the socioeconomic class between
the working class and the upper class. They are the businessmen and
shop keepers etc. Working class are those who work for a wage (ie:
most of the people). Of late, however, the upper end of the labor
class has taken to calling its self middle class.

That's not an economic definition, that attempts to divide people
based on occupation. What range of incomes qualifies as "middle
class" ?

What is "standard of living"? Do you mean that real wages
have decreased?

If they are collecting wages they really aren't middle class taking
the classic definitions. But as many americans would define it, yes
that would be included in the decrease.

Kindly show that. Be sure to include benefits--
retirement and healthcare in your figures...the result may surprise
you.

I doubt it:

Smart business folks are starting to prepare for the decrease as in:http://www.foodprocessing.com/articles/2005/404.html

Between 2001 and 2004, there was a 10.5% decrease in the portion of
the middle class that had three months of wages in economic wealth.

Average household income for working families when adjusted for
inflation was $46,058 in 2000 and has since declined to $44,389.
There has also been a decline in the average value of benifits.

This article (below) shows the debt or decreases in savings to
maintian the life style.http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0802/p02s01-usec.html?page=1

The article below makes the point about the growth being less than
should be expected. The numbers are at the bottom.http://www.cbpp.org/8-9-05bud.htm

Do you have any figures?

Thanks for providing sources, but please note that these are not
actual data, these are analyses and observations by people who
(hopefully) consulted the data.

Given the quality of analysis in the popular press, it's a lot better
to get the straight numbers--it avoids many errors. But, of course,
it's a lot of work and most people would rather not do it. Since you
made the claims, I hoped you could provide the backing for your
statements.

That said, here's another analysis of the wage situation:
http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=246755427121360

(The short take is that wages and the middle class are doing great--
not declining-- _if_ the effect of illegal immigrants (many of whom
are poor) are removed from the statistics).

Best wishes,
James Arthur

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The Electric Car
    ... Exactly how fast do you think the economy should grow? ... also seeing a decrease in standard of living. ... The middle class usually taken to be the socioeconomic class between ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: Whats wrong with our country
    ... our national debt as a percentage of GDP was up around ... The American economy in 1928 was a dwarf compared to what ... gap closed and the middle class grew. ... OF COURSE the GDP kept rising and OF COURSE wages went down. ...
    (rec.sport.football.college)
  • Re: Toyota sweats U.S. labor costs
    ... The economy is expanding: ... A History of America's Disappearing Middle Class ... political climate, but then remained in place for several decades more. ... these factors and economics are in collusion. ...
    (alt.machines.cnc)
  • OT: While CEOs Plunder $$$ Rape and sell us OUT
    ... Real Wages Fail to Match a Rise in Productivity ... With the economy beginning to slow, the current expansion has a chance to become the first sustained period of economic growth since World War II that fails to offer a prolonged increase in real wages for most workers. ...
    (alt.guitar.amps)
  • Re: The New York Times is a capitalist enterprise, although youd never know it by reading it.
    ... the National Review article, that's one of the better statistical spins ... Real Wages Fail to Match a Rise in Productivity ... With the economy beginning to slow, the current expansion has a chance ... The median hourly wage for American workers has declined 2 percent ...
    (rec.music.artists.springsteen)