Re: Freeman Dyson on heresy

On Aug 19, 9:53 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
MooseFET wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
MooseFET wrote:
bill.slo...@xxxxxxxx wrote:
John Larkin

Perhaps, 50 years from now, there will be monuments to Bush in the
democratic states of Iran and Syria and Saudi Arabia.

LMFAO !

J.L. seems to have lost his mind.

That there will be monuments to Bush - most likely in the form of
smoking craters - is more likely than that any one of those free
states will be democratic, or even as nearly democratic as the current
U.S. of A.

Iran was on the democratic path in the past. Today it is largely a
theocracy but the public would prefer a democracy.

I rather doubt that suggestion. There is a well-educated ~10% of the population
who think that way but they are outnumbered by the other 90% who adhere to older
ways.

Where do you get your figures or estimates.

From too many sources to recall now. Like India, Iran has a well educated 'elite'
middle-class who are intelligent, moderately prosperous and knowledgeable about world
affairs. The remainder largely live off the land in fairly primitive conditions by
comparison. Don't expect the same of them !

India is a democracy. If Iran is like it, I don't see why you don't
think it can become one too.


I admit that the people I've spoken to who actually have been there were largely
interacting
with the technical folk and those who at that time were the youth.

Exactly. And some of the youth will travel abroad to learn, thus expanding their
horizons.

These were the youth within Iran BTW that I was talking about. In
this case it would be the subset of the youth that were in school and
were curious about phone systems.


I have heard many reports from others that would also suggest that the
majority is not in favor of the extremists who are now in charge.

The majority *ELECTED* those extremists actually in preference to more moderate
candidates.

They elected them in elections that were more than a little funny
around the edges. The moderates the public really wanted were not
permitted to run.


It is highly likely that if it is left to do so, it will turn into a democracy
at some time in the future.

I'm sure it will continue to have Islam at its core though.

"Christian democracies" exist so I see no reason a "Islamic democracy"
couldn't.

The problem with Islam is that it cannot accept separation of 'church' and state as a
basic principle. Islam wants to be 'everything' you see. It wants to dominate all
aspects of a culture.

This can also be said of Christianity. The theocrats in the US want
the church to run the government. The theocrats in England want the
same. Moderate christianity learned to deal with the fact that they
couldn't run everything. Somehow they survived.


Turkey has gone a long way in that direction.

By keeping Islam in its box.

The US has done the same keeping the christian theocrats out. England
actually has many of the theocrats on the inside and yet it survives.



.

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