Re: Productivity - Norway leads the table.

MooseFET wrote:

On Sep 12, 7:53 am, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

MooseFET wrote:

On Sep 11, 8:04 am, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

MooseFET wrote:

On Sep 10, 7:33 am, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
[....]

I guess now we're all getting confused here. The topic was life
expectancy and how efficient health systems deal with sickness such as
cancer, not cancer because of food (food rarely causes cancer). My
initial point was that of the cancer that occurs, for whatever reason,
the chances of you being healed from it is greatest in the US and rather
dismal in some other countries where people perceive their health
systems as better.

I suspect that there is less confusion than you think. You suggested
that the US had a better survival rate after cancer is detected.
Those graphs showed the cancer rate for various countries as one axis
of and the fat intake as the other. Both were higher in several
countries in europe than in the US and yet the US has a shorter life
expectancy. This means that it looks unlikely that the survival rate
is more in the US.

Nope, you are mixing two things. The overall life expectancy has almost
nothing to do with cancer recidivism or efficiency of cancer treatment
because it includes everything that causes death. Guns, accidents,
suicide, diabetes, high cholesterol, poor diet etc.

People who die from cancer move the life expectancy down. Those who
live a long time after it move it up. Cancer is one of the major
killers.

Still, you can't mix it all together to gauge the effectiveness of a
country's health system.

I don't see why not.


Ok, I give up explaining it.

Let me just say that I'm involved in clinical studies since a couple of decades which is why I asserted that.



There are too many other major causes of death,
such as stroke,

That goes up with more fat. See Denmark etc.


And lack of exercise, and sitting on the couch in front of a TV, and ...



heart attacks,

This also goes up with more fat.


Sure. And there ain't nothing an HMO can do about bad habits. That is exactly my point.


accidents,
Are americans somehow extra gifted in this area?


I was talking about the world and about statistic, not Americans in particular. But IME we do have a much higher tendency of not wearing seat belts and riding motor cycles without a helmet. Ask any ER doc about the consequences.

Then there is lack of infrastructure: Paltry public transportation, often no sidewalks. So people have no choice but to drive to their favorite pub. A few drinks later they drive back home. I hear that almost every Fri/Sat night from the main road here. Gunned engines, hollering, singing, firing rifles into the air, plus the occasional long screech followed by a boom and the sound of flying glass.

Also, we have more toys and that just comes with risks. For example, in this area the number of pool accidents and fatalities is much higher than in similar towns in Europe. If there ain't no pool you can't have a pool accident ;-)


homicides,
Perhaps we do need to normalize for this.


Same for overdoses. The only place I've seem similar drug problems and their deadly consequences was in the Netherlands. Not the fault of the health system at all, but of the people.


neglect.
Are americans specially gifted in this area too?


Don't know. However, the reported cases of child neglect are staggering. Possibly related to drugs where enforcement is IMHO often sub-optimal. Teenage pregnancy is another cause. Unfortunately we don't score very good in those fields.



Often
caused my negligence on the part of the victim, not by a health system.


You seem to have a low opinion of americans.


On the contrary. From all the places I lived at Americans are the folks with the highest level of neighborly love. Someone's got a problem and everybody jumps in. Heck, when we called to get onto a list to cook for the family of a cancer victim just a few hours after the prayer chain email went around all but two nights were already "booked out". Haven't seen that anywhere else, and that's what is most important IMHO.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
.

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