Re: Utility of copper pours on four-layer boards

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 12:59:27 +1200, Terry Given <my_name@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Guy Macon" <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote in message
news:gJidnTAI7drJF2fa4p2dnAA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I fail to see how a "do not pour" order will not result in
an argument but a "make the clearance 12 mils" order will.


It's one argument (period) rather than one argument per board, where the
numbers change based on size of the board, impedances, layers, etc. :-)


I think that the decision should be made for other reasons,
not decided by what minimizes argument.


In the ideal world, yes.

---Joel

Hi Joel,

Firstly, you paid for all that Cu anyway, so you might as well use it.

Secondly, dont take *** from layout guys. after all, who is designing
the PCB - you or them?

I usually end up doing all my own layouts..... and when I dont, I retain
veto rights over them anyway (PCBs dont get fab'd until I approve them).

Its perhaps a cultural thing too - IME the americans I have worked with
seem loathe to give out (or, for that matter, follow) orders, and have
this bizarre idea that every decision should be by consensus (I read a
book a while back, freedom in america, which postulates that "freedom"
really means "equality" IOW "you are not better than me, so dont tell me
what to do". Which might be a great way to run a democracy, but is a
piss-poor way to run an engineering project.

that being said, I love a good argument, and if you can offer a cogent
reason to do it your way, I will. I had a great argument with a
production mgr in MA once, about a transformer re-design. This thing set
its UL94V-0 bobbin on fire, and my solution was to make the copper foil
6x thinner. After arguing with the PM for an hour or so, my compromise
was this: I will get some made and we will try them. If you are right,
we will walk around the entire company and explain to every person how I
was wrong and you were right, and I defer to your greatness. the
corollary also applies.

To be fair, proximity effect is counter-intuitive, but it sure made a
difference - 30C dT c.f. naked flames. Man, did he get *** from his
staff after the trip around the building; we went out drinking that
night, and ended up good friends. and he stopped challenging me on
magnetics designs. And I learned a lot from him, including this little gem:

If a person cannot fire you, then their opinions are not particularly
relevant.

NB: Facts are an entirely different matter, and need to be respected
regardless of who points them out. Opinions, however, are like assholes
- everybody has one, and they are often full of ***.


Cheers
Terry

I have met some people who had colostomy bags instead. Interesting
byproduct those persons did not seem to be full of them selves or
opinions. That always seemed to end up in the bag as well.
.

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