Re: Politicians and energy policy

In article <6550e459-b332-4801-b7d4-
fa5d850cc56a@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, gnuarm@xxxxxxxxx says...
On May 23, 6:39 pm, krw <k...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <0b8853f3-256a-4f44-a1a5-4f2d558205e0
@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, gnu...@xxxxxxxxx says...



On May 22, 11:50 pm, linnix <m...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Everyone drives a hybrid which
can be plugged into the power grid and charged at night when the power
grid is way below peak usage. Then they can be driven up to 40 miles
the next day without using any fuel.

He would also set the power rates at lower amounts at off peak times
and higher during the daily peaks.

For this to be meaningful, the consumers have to see different rates
for peak usage and non-peak usage. The utility company told us to
pump the pool at night (supposedly non-peak usage), but we are paying
the same either way. Only total kilowatt hours matter anyway.

Didn't I mention that? This guy would require the power company to
both sell and buy at prices dependent on the gross usage compared to
peak.
Turns out the power company here charges based on your peak usage. A
friend works at a dairy which has many electric motors, some of them
quite large. They paid thousands of dollars for control panels that
will bring the motors online sequentially to prevent a huge spike in
the power consumed. This saves them money because their rate is set
by the peak usage at any time during the day.

That is another way to save money, if the power companies start
charging residential the same way they charge commercial, the hybrid
can kick in to supply current during the peak in your residence. But
then most people are away during the day anyway. I guess the AC still
runs.

You still want to keep the house dehumidified during the day.

I recently interviewed with a company that makes smart power meters.
They can control loads, so the power company can level loads without
blacking out everything. For instance, I doesn't matter much if a
water heater is turned off for a few hours, or the water heaters
across town are cycled. Much better to turn them off for some hours
during the day than have large peaks. The meters network with their
neighbors so metering and control can be done across wide areas.
Slick stuff.

--
Keith

When I was a kid, we had "dumb" electric meters, one for the water
heater and one for the rest of the house. But we had "smart" rates.
If we let the power company set the water heater meter so that it was
cut off during peak load times, we got a break on the rate.

Some had two meters, one with a timer for the large load.

I think that a lot of this should be done by providing rates dependent
on the aggregate amount of juice used. If rates were higher during
the day, *everyone* would be cutting back on electricity use during
the day.

Nothing stopping that, though you need the smart meter.

I don't see how the "smart" load controls can do a good job. For all
practical purposes this is exactly the same as a rolling blackout,
just spread out rather than being focused on a specific area. If my
AC is running 80% of the day to keep the house cool and the meter cuts
"levels" it for an hour, that just means it will run continuously for
the rest of the day playing catchup raising the peak load the rest of
the day. This would cause other houses to be "leveled" which will
raise the peak load the rest of the day, resulting in more
"leveling"... You see where this is going. Load leveling won't
reduce peaks without having an effect on the average temperature in
the places being cooled... unless there is some means of leveling over
a 24 hour period which requires energy storage.

Playing "catchup" is a misnomer. Setback thermostats do this now.

Shedding just AC loads would keep the lighting on, and of course the
all important TeeVee. Should help keep crime down. Blackouts in
major cities aren't a good thing.

<snip>

Someone said you have to "dehumidify" during the day... maybe you do
to some degree, but if you aren't in the house, there is very little
moisture entering it. It is when you open the doors that most of the
moisture enters the house. That can be removed at night when you need
to cool the house. The "smart" controls need to be able to turn the
AC way back when you are not there and then return the house to the
conditions you want *before* you return home. So they need to be
controlled from your cell phone or from your work computer. A simple
timer just doesn't cut it for many of us not on a timetable.

You want to *keep* the humidity down. You save money by lowering
the temperature differential. You LOSE money by letting the
humidity rise. Unless you're JT, humidity is more important than
the temperature.

--
Keith
.

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