Re: Politicians and energy policy

In <b3c7f0c9-2e90-41fa-8cfd-1b0ba73ccdfc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
rickman wrote:
On May 27, 12:16 am, d...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In <47323612-963d-4cb9-89c0-b8717c2fd...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,

rickman wrote:
On May 26, 11:15 pm, krw <k...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <b4sm34dsbepqs890883insvphnqte5u...@xxxxxxx>,
speffS...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx says...

On Mon, 26 May 2008 20:06:47 -0400, the renowned krw
<k...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <fi7h34hfkub6b213b5mh09c3lecfqnu...@xxxxxxx>,
speffS...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx says...

<snip>

Our power producer (Hydro One) is pushing a scheme where you install a
(free) web-enabled thermostat so they can reduce peak demand by
cranking down your A/C at peak periods.

Are they giving discounts? Why would I want one?

1) Free setdown thermostat which you can control remotely too.

$25 worth.

2) $25 on top of that.

Ok, $50.

3) It will cut your power bills (but only at the nominal rate, AFAIK).

Seems like they're looking for the incredibly cheap.

I might consider it it returned more than the nominal rate and the
hours of peak demand were when I wasn't usually home. Otherwise, I
don't see the advantage, and it's a bit creepy.

That's how I see it. No thanks. I have $50 of my own.

--
Keith

The "nominal" rate thing is red herring. Just like the water company
that I dealt with, if they lower your rates for installing their
thermostat, they will only have to raise rates for everyone. Then
when ultimately everyone has these units installed mandatoraly,
everyone's will be paying just as much as before.

But if this eliminates need to build a power plant, then the ratepayers
won't have to pay for that.

Yes, that will keep rates from going higher, but it won't reduce
them. In fact, rates may still go up since maintenance costs increase
as plants get older... nothing lasts forever. So you pay for new
stuff or you pay to maintain old stuff.

If demand is allowed to increase proportionately with population growth,
then the ratepayers have to pay both for new plants and maintenance of the
aging ones.

Regulatory agencies largely guarantee utilities a certain amount of net
profit and rate of return on their stocks. If utilities don't have to
spend as much on fuel and plant building, the ratepayers will pay less.
Maybe more per KWH but still less.

That is true for *regulated* utilities. The movement is to de-
regulate electric utilities.

If actually effectively deregulated, then the ratepayers would only pay
necessary costs and a fair profit. Again, avoiding need to build new
plants by keeping demand in check will save the ratepayers money.

Also, the profit set by rate commissions
is often governed as ROI which means the more they invest in capital,
the more profit they can take.

That makes a case for utilities taking in less money if need for new
plants is reduced.

<SNIP from here for now>

- Don Klipstein (don@xxxxxxxxx)
.

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