Re: OT : Arctic Ice returns

In article <Xs1%j.4822$mh5.4492@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Joerg wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:
In article <pan.2008.05.27.18.28.40.110787@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Richard The
Dreaded Libertarian wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2008 22:43:39 +0000, Don Klipstein wrote:
In article <4837D2B4.9DADC2B6@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Eeyore wrote:
Never ever AIUI has there been a valid record where increased CO2 led
temperature.
Except for the period from the Industrial Revolution to now.

Easy explanation: When the amount of carbon in the carbon cycle was
constant, CO2 shifted from oceans to atmosphere as one of the positive
feedback mechanisms that enabled slight changes in sunlight to change
global temperatures by about 10 degrees C.
Easier explanation: The temperature monitors are in urban centers, which
consistently measure a higher temperature than anywhere else, because
of the concentration of people, concrete, air conditioning, car exhaust,
etc., etc., etc.

Even the RSS satellite says we have had warming since 1979. At a rate
around .12-.15 degree C per decade.

And AGW denialists actually like the satellite data because it indicates
less rise than HadCRUT, and even HadCRUT was cited in The Register's
"A Tale of Two Thermometers" to support a case of less global warming.

Satellites sensing temperature from thermal infrared don't see through
perfectly transparent atmosphere to the surface, but see a bit of the
atmosphere also. When greenhouse gases increase, two things happen:

1. A thermal infrared sensor sees more from the atmosphere and less from
the surface. Most of the atmosphere is cooler than the surface.

2. When greenhouse gases increase and cause warming, most of the
atmosphere warms less than the surface does. Some of the atmosphere
actually cools unless albedo change positive feedback is strong enough to
outweigh that.

Expect .12 degree C per decade warming since 1979 to be erring on the
conservative side as well as taking care of urban heat islands.

I still wonder who left all those SUVs idling on Mars:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

Who caused all the greenhouse gas there if there is indeed a man-made
global warming (which I doubt)?

Did you see my other response?

That article says that the south polar region of Mars has warmed for 6
years as of 2005.

The Wiki article on solar variation shows what the sun's output did
since 1975.

- Don Klipstein (don@xxxxxxxxx)
.

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  • Re: OT : Arctic Ice returns
    ... When the amount of carbon in the carbon cycle was ... CO2 shifted from oceans to atmosphere as one of the positive ... The temperature monitors are in urban centers, ... "A Tale of Two Thermometers" to support a case of less global warming. ...
    (sci.electronics.design)