Re: Hurricane Bertha

Kris Krieger wrote:
Joerg <notthisjoergsch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:Jn4fk.18017$N87.14630@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

JosephKK wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:03:07 -0700, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

JosephKK wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:25:05 -0700, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

bill.sloman@xxxxxxxx wrote:
[...]

Right wig commentators make a great fuss about the "dependency
culture" which is a myth, and ignore the damage done to the
children of the poor by inadequatesocial security.

I have seen dependency or entitlement mentality first hand in the Netherlands. Kids saying openly "Why should I apply for a job?
Then I have less money in my pocket that I do on welfare. It would
be stupid." That did it for me and I packed my bags.
Not much help really, i am seeing it now in US youth. Where would
you go now?

Yeah, I also see that here. The problem are more the parents though,
pampering their kids like you wouldn't believe.

Not just that, it is cultural, more extensive and pervasive than the
average parent can cope with. It is even hugely challenging to very
good parents. I have many good friends with troubled teens.

Same here. But when you watch really closely you can detect where and how the family structures have already fallen apart even in affluent families.

Not meaning to be a buttinsky, but, WHy is it that people always seem to think "affleunt families" are some sort of idyllic perfect things? Peopl eare poeple. Havin gmoney doesn't "make" one person happier, or better, or more well-adjusted, etc., than another. Yes, money [pays for the necessities - duh. But someone living in a 5000 sq ft house, and driving an overpriced car, is not automatically "happier" than someone living in a 1500 sq ft house who drives a Mini-Cooper or a 6 yr old basic Saturn.

Sometimes, having lots of material wealth is *not* a good thing for a family, becasue it can easily leadtoselfishness, which in turn leads to isolation, which in turn leads to emotional/family problems. Too often, parents try to buy their children's love, when the fact is that lvoe is not a function of how much money is thrownat someone, but rather, of the time one spends wiht them, the kindness and consideration and patience one treats them with, and other such non-material things that involve, not things, but *personal interaction*.


Agreed. I just wanted to point out that it's families where one parent is at home and should function as an emotional pillar, but doesn't. If it's any comfort I am driving an 11 year old Mits Montero Sport. Not exactly a yuppie vehicle, does the job just fine.


A classic example where I saw trouble coming (and boy did it
come):

a. They don't eat dinner as a family.
b. Kids constantly on cell phone or in front of TV.
c. Kids tune out surroundings, don't even recognize who visits.
d. Parents don't really know how kids feel.
e. No family trips on weekends.
f. No religious beliefs.

Why is trhat a :prerequisite" for having a loving gfamily? Some of the most miserable, hateful families I've personally known were ultra-
religious. ...


Then they are not living according to the bible. Which they should. Or maybe they got into some cult.


... And it's obvious that religeon does not automatically inculcate a respect for human life, never mind non-human life - how much torture and killing has been done in the name of religion... Also, spirituality is not the same thing as religiousity; it's like love and sex - best when one has both together, but it's enturely possible to have either on its own: they are different things. One can be spiritual without adhering to this or that set of religious strictures, and one can be very religious yet not particularly spiritual.

Sorry but I react to that because I've too often seen religion cited as some sort of panacea for any and all social ills, when it actually can cause as many as it purports to correct.


To me my Christian faith is the path to a healthy co-existence. However, there are lots of people who claim to be believers and then they don't live according to the bible. Oh, and none of us is perfect. I make mistakes, too ;-)


g. No planning.
h. Kids never participate in chores.
i. ... and so on.


All of the above indicate a lack or emotional engagement and personal involvement. You have to put a lot *into* children. In a sense, they're and investment of time and emotional energy, as well as *thinking*.

People don't like to see their own faults, which not only means that they tend to lay blame everywhere otehr than on themselves, but also, it means they cannot work towards self-improvement. The only way to improve oneself - and the means intellectually *and* emotionally *and* spiritually - is to recognize that one is *not* perfect, that one does haev faults, and that those faults can at least ameliorated, although many can be corrected. Patience, for example, can be cultivated - it doesn't mean one will *never* become angry or frustrated, but it does mean that one will be less wound up and therefore ableot both enjoy life more, and have more joy to offer others.

Here is another fact - your Self is like a garden. If you want ot have a bountiful harvest of flowers an dfruits and vegetables to share with others, that garden has to be tended: weeds need to be pulled, destrcutive insects picked off, the soil cultivated and aerated and fertilized. Far, far too many poeple are so dang busy merely being busy, that they deplete their own soil, and the harvest they can share becoems increasingly poor.


Not just their own, many are also too busy to deal with their kids. They dump them at kindergarden, pre-school, whatever. "Ah, done! The kids are off my back." I know couples where one spouse has less net earnings than child care is costing them. I cannot understand that at all. They are hemorraghing money and slowly losing their kids.


Unfortunately, children are the most vunerable to that depletion - when someone is so busy being busy that they can't, or won't?, spend "quality time" with their children, teaching them things first-hand in an initimate, warm, secure setting, the children grw up emotionally malnourished. And that isn't somehting that can magically be "fixed" after they becoem teens. The teen years are hard even in the best of circumstances, but when that child is emotionally malnourished, it makes those years so much worse.

Children are not like pets who can be crated at night and left her and there while the parents go out to play. They take commitment and gawdawful hard work.


Dogs that are crated and left alone a lot develop serious problems, too. We once had to deal with a guest dog like that. And we took in another, for good. After 3-4 years she became somewhat normal again.

[rest snipped, but pretty much in agreement with it]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
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