Re: OT: interesting global warming quote found elsewhwere

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:32:34 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:17:31 GMT, Jonathan Kirwan
<jkirwan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:53:34 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

<snip>
Fig 2 is especially ludicrous. The only way they can make the CO2
threat alarming enough is to add a bunch of positive feedbacks, and no
negative feedbacks.

I can't say what in the heck you mean by "alarming enough." It's just
vague, to me. But climate scientists and the IPCC summary of their
work understand quite a lot about quite a number of both positive and
negative feedbacks. One needs to be COMPREHENSIVE in view to begin to
gather the error bars and the reason the IPCC WG I conclusions about
the science, so far. Just WG I, and it is really only a summary of
the science, is over 1000 pages.

Your selectiveness and ready willingness to imagine all manner of
conspiratorial, intentional malice with tens of thousands of active
scientists in related fields with widely varying motivations for why
they do what they do is shocking to me and stands as a self-created
monument of something that is a lot more about you than anyone else.

They probably have the cloud polarity backwards.

Have you done ANY reading of the peer-reviewed science on clouds in
the last five years? You couldn't even write that, if you had. And I
don't mean what you probably imagine I mean in saying that, either.

The historical record, temperature as a function of orbital dynamics
and vulcanism, doesn't suggest net positive feedbacks, and certainly
doesn't suggest the "tipping point" that's being cited as a
justification for immediate and drastic meddling in the economies of
the world. What's real is the price of food, and the billion people
who don't have enough. AGW is the new racism.

All just your remarkable intuition, which apparently you are so
egotistical as to imagine completely replaces any need for actual
study by anyone else, let alone yourself. We should just listen to
you, if you are any guide about it, on any fact of nature since you
already know the answers by just listening to your internal thoughts
about it, without even studying.

You are remarkable.

As are you. You cut over to insults, when the discussion was
objective;

It wasn't objective at all, John. You have unmitigated gall to dare
call it that. But I expect it from you, too.

I never said anything about *you*.

What you did say was, in fact, quite simply shocking, John. Even you
should be able to see that. And that you don't, just adds to the
picture.

Your emotional
investment in this must be huge; perhaps you should take it to a more
appropriate forum than sci.electronics.design, somewhere your
expertise would be more admired.

If your words here are any example, you have no understanding of the
either the remarkable success story of science or what makes it work
as well as it does. Regardless, I've no problem pointing out the
obvious when time and interest allows. You, notwithstanding.

I work with scientists a lot, and I appreciate that they have the same
emotions and prejudices as mere mortals. The only thing that keeps
them honest is math and experiment, neither of which are worth much as
regards AGW. There *are* competant dissenters to the current CO2
panic, and dissenters have a pretty good long-term record in the
history of science.

You are remarkable in your misunderstanding of the methods of science
and remarkable even more for your own belief that without any study,
any data, and theory that your internal, mental free assocation is
enough by itself to decide what is factual. I just stare in awe and
mystery at it.

In the very long term, the Earth needs to have its CO2 recycled; we're
close to running out. The consequences can't be as unreservedly bad as
all the newspapers claim, the latest prediction being a massive
epidemic of kidney stones... I'm not joking.

If you say so, I must take you at your word at not joking. But that
has nothing to do with the price of tea in china, either, or natural
fact.

The ethanol thing has already, in all likelihood, killed millions.

I think it is TERRIBLE that the US engaged that. We agree at least on
the point that it shouldn't have been pursued this way.

People need food;

State the obvious. It doesn't change the rest of what you say or add
any weight to it, John. Each by itself.

plants need warmth and CO2.

And light and nutrients and water, etc. I take it that you feel you
can just wave in some direction here, as though it means more than my
saying "the sun rises each day" or that this makes it any better that
you can make pronouncements on science because of your internal
intuition and nothing else.

Oops, the BDM load is done... back to testing. 6350 lines of code so
far.

Now that, I can understand and agree with. I'm with you there.

Jon
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OT: interesting global warming quote found elsewhwere
    ... threat alarming enough is to add a bunch of positive feedbacks, ... the science, is over 1000 pages. ... scientists in related fields with widely varying motivations for why ... plants need warmth and CO2. ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: OT: interesting global warming quote found elsewhwere
    ... threat alarming enough is to add a bunch of positive feedbacks, ... the science, is over 1000 pages. ... don't mean what you probably imagine I mean in saying that, ... There *are* competant dissenters to the current CO2 ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: OT: interesting global warming quote found elsewhwere
    ... So you discount the entire process and a great many scientists, ... You are proposing a science conspiracy unlike any ever before. ... should be taken with the weight that their selectiveness deserves. ... threat alarming enough is to add a bunch of positive feedbacks, ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: OT: interesting global warming quote found elsewhwere
    ... threat alarming enough is to add a bunch of positive feedbacks, ... the science, is over 1000 pages. ... There *are* competant dissenters to the current CO2 ... fads, ruination of dissenters, and entire careers wasted by the fixed ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: OT: interesting global warming quote found elsewhwere
    ... threat alarming enough is to add a bunch of positive feedbacks, ... the science, is over 1000 pages. ... don't mean what you probably imagine I mean in saying that, ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
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