Re: NY AG--defender of children?

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:36:42 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Kris Krieger wrote:
Joerg <notthisjoergsch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:X4%jk.13791$LG4.4511@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
[snip]
Can we admit to ourselves that we really want to censor it (and
should do so) even if it can be proved to have been
computer-generated? Or do we have to huff and puff and say that
computer generated fantasies cause
abuse of real children? (I'm not saying that's impossible--but our
deep moral feeling about it wouldn't go away if it were shown not to
be the case.)


It's probably a case wherein a lto fo people don't want to make
exceptions, becasue exceptions are always pucshed, taken advantage of -
there is a fear (and I'm not absolutely sure it's without foundation)
that, if computer-generated CP is permitted, epople will push the limits
of that in a ways that *does* end up harming children. And personally,
I'm not convinced that the risk of that is acceptable. Yes, I fear
erosion of the First Amendment, but I also have *very* strong personal
concerns about child welfare (which already is IMO insufficient in this
country) - it's quite a quandary.

I think digital child p__n should be illegal--very illegal. The state
has a sufficient interest in preventing the corruption of its citizens
to override freedom of expression in that instance. It's ridiculous to
contend that during the 200 or so years in which pornography was
illegal, the political freedom of Americans was harmed. It's the
equivalent of Rudy Giuliani cleaning up Times Square--everyone heaved a
sigh of relief.

I agree with much of what you've written on this as well as this part,
but you've introduced a strawman of sorts here. I'd imagine the
argument isn't strictly limited to one about "political freedom."

Sure, that is probably the most protected form in the US -- in terms
of speech, for example, that is certainly true in that political free
speech is more protected than any other form of speech in the US.

There are some who may argue there is more to protect than just
political expression. It might also be about what we are allowed to
think about in private, for example, and whether or not society has a
right to intrude at that level. I haven't given this detailed
thought. Although you appear in the above to restrict the argument to
that, I can readily imagine a debate that involves more than deciding
things purely upon some one dimensional scale of political expression.

What I'm really getting at is the inconsistency in the real position of
the `no-censorship-no-how-no-way' folk. I think that most don't really
want to allow the nastiest sort of stuff to proliferate, on grounds that
at bottom are moral--the obvious need to protect children has allowed
them to avoid articulating the moral argument, but that smokescreen is
going to go away, and soon. Some smart Russian will write a program
that generates ugly stuff on the fly--no images on your hard disk--and
then the cat will be among the pigeons.

It'll be interesting to see how they react. Probably some will grow a
backbone and some won't. It'll change the terms of the debate, for sure.

I had missed this, earlier. Very interesting presentation of your
point. You are making me think more closely. Thanks.

Jon
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Lest We Forget
    ... But having the right to be disrespectful does not protect you from the ... Yes, freedom of speech, it does not protect you from other's freedom ... And willing to ride through a snow storm with a stranger. ...
    (rec.motorcycles)
  • Re: Lest We Forget
    ... But having the right to be disrespectful does not protect you from the ... Yes, freedom of speech, it does not protect you from other's freedom ... Rodeos and tar sands ...
    (rec.motorcycles)
  • Governor Fletcher - Statement on Intelligent Design in 2006 State of the Kentucky Commonwealth
    ... Reference the speech given Monday January 09, ... And where does this freedom come from that many have died to protect? ... our school districts have that freedom and I ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: NY AG--defender of children?
    ... has a sufficient interest in preventing the corruption of its citizens to override freedom of expression in that instance. ... It's ridiculous to contend that during the 200 or so years in which pornography was illegal, the political freedom of Americans was harmed. ... speech is more protected than any other form of speech in the US. ... There are some who may argue there is more to protect than just ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: Court authorized wiretaps in the U.S. surged last year
    ... The entire terrorism argument is a convienient ... > Liberal groups were targeted by wiretapping and covert ops in the US ... freedom or security", or some similar such quote from the founders. ... One must protect all basic freedoms. ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
Quantcast