Re: OT: Why welfare doesn't work!

bill.sloman@xxxxxxxx wrote in news:cb9e41ed-5676-464c-9054-3d0c4945eb68
@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com:

On Sep 6, 3:54 pm, "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaugh...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Does this argument make sense? (cause a friend of mine seems not to think
so)

The fact that kids who's parents that "live" on welfare also end up "livi
ng"
on welfare verses the kids who's parents do not live on welfare prove tha
t
welfare does not work in getting people off welfare.

The US system of giving parents inadequate welfare, so their kids
don't live well enough to be able to do well at school is indeed a
foolish system.

European welfare is pitched that little bit higher and seems to avoid
this particular pitfall.

Hence welfare does not work unless the goal is to keep them on welfare.

Hence inadequate welfare doesn't work.

 So in fact the best way to make people successful is not to put them on
welfare.

Which is to say, you would let them starve to death - if they were too
honest for their own good - or force them into crime if they were not.

No, Bill. I've personally known a few poeple who were second and third
generation welfare recipients, and they saw no need to try to learn how to
behave on a job, get along with others, and so on, becasue they knew they'd
get their money regardless. But they also *demanded* all of the
entertainments (movies, cell phones, DVD players, etc.) that working people
use to relax.

If things are different in Europe, I suspect it's got mroe to do with
European culture, because the entire system there is different - in the US,
Johnson's "Great Society" *forced* the breakup of families by refusing to
give sufficient assistance (including job assistance) to the working poor.
Givent the history of the racial divide, most of those poor were
Blacks/African-Americans. THere was a complex cultural feedback loop that
ended up makign Welfare a racial issue, to the extent that attempts to reduce
welfare were protested as "genocide".

You can't really compare Eurpoean society and culture to US society/culture -
although the old roots of the cultures are the same, they've diverged greatly
in so many ways that it's now like comparing apples to oranges.

WHich is not to say that we can't learn some things from teh Europeans (and
visa-versa), it's just that European solutions are not directly applicable to
America, and visa versa.


Raising the level of welfare suport to a point where the kids aren't
being damaged would seem to be a preferrable option on both moral and
economic grounds. Europe seems to be able to afford it

And what of damage doen by parents who don't much care? Simply throwing
money at people doesn't automatically make tehm good parents. What about the
numbers of mothers who spend the money on drugs, while the kids go hungry?

It's not as simple a problem as you make it out to be.


This argument seems perfectly logical

To any cheapskate right-winger.

Horse-hockey.

Belitting anyone who recognizes the complexity of the problem only contrbutes
to the problem, doing nothign whatsoever to offer a workable solution.


. anyone think it's not?

Most people who know something about the real world.

Back up by logical proof and facts.

You show me the proof of your assertion that the children of American
parents who were on welfare have a higher chance of ending up on
welfare than the children of parents who weren't on welfare, and I'll
see what I can dig up from the European statistics.

While you are at it, do check out an alternate hypothesis, which is
that Americans of African or Native American descent are over-
represented on the welfare rolls due to America's pervasive racism,
rather than due to the damaging effects of living on welfare (which
seems to be the substance of your hypothesis).

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmeen



Again, over-simplification. YEs, there is a lto that should be changed -
needs to be changed - but it's not nearlty as one-sided as you claim. WE
have to *work together*. YEs, it's good to help people so that they can
contribtue to society, but simply saying "white people suck", and throwing
more money t the problem, has not worked to date, and will not work in the
future. Education is a key, and I don't just mean making peole memorize teh
State capitols, I mean teach people real life-skills, such as child
nutrition, figuring out a household budget, job training, social skills
needed to get and keep a job, and so on.

As for "America's pervasive racism", yes, there are racists, but I think
you're oversimplifying the situation.


But then, what do I know, I've never been to Europe and have only lived in
seven states and two Canadian provinces...





.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Welfare babies,
    ... Not everyone on welfare goes on it when their child ... You must know very little about the foster care system, ... I would rather see foster parents receive the government benefits ... most definitely have their kids removed. ...
    (rec.food.cooking)
  • Re: Australian girls jailed for killing peer
    ... there r no murder in Singapore? ... Jane Davis in the West Australian coal mining town ... single parents and the disabled, ... the Welfare to Work measures are ...
    (soc.culture.singapore)
  • Re: New Israeli sitcom features Arab hero
    ... are having alot less. ... since netanyahu cut child welfare. ... I think in these religious families kids keep themeselves occupied ... and parents also need to have a ...
    (soc.culture.jewish.moderated)
  • Australian government cuts thousands of welfare recipients off benefits
    ... It is therefore not surprising that Labor has dropped its previous criticisms about sole parents and the disabled being incorporated into the new regime. ... The new, far more draconian, system also affects single parents and the disabled, many of whom have been placed on Newstart Allowances, rather than Parenting Payments or Disability Support Pensions, for the first time from July 1. ... Taken as a whole, the Welfare to Work measures are designed to force more than 200,000 benefit claimants into low-paid and sub-standard work or “work for the dole” schemes, paving the way for the abolition of welfare altogether. ... Under the scheme, the government pays charities or welfare contractors $650 to assess and organise the payment of essential bills for those cut-off, supposedly to prevent them and their children from starving, being evicted from their homes, or having their electricity, phone or water services axed. ...
    (soc.culture.singapore)
  • Re: OT: Why welfare doesnt work!
    ... The fact that kids who's parents that "live" on welfare also end up ... Cell phones are issued because lord knows if they needed to call 911 ...
    (sci.electronics.design)