Re: OT: Why Obama will win... and deserves to win!

On Oct 22, 9:37 am, Joe Chisolm <nos...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 05:56:03 -0700, MooseFET wrote:
On Oct 22, 10:48 am, John Larkin
<jjlar...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:42:13 -0700 (PDT), MooseFET

<kensm...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Oct 22, 5:06 am, n...@xxxxxxxxxxx (Nico Coesel) wrote: [....]
We need a national sales tax, with zero tax on business profits. Tax
consumption, not production or employment.

Don't bother. Just make the business profits go away like they do
here. Buy a company and make sure it must pay more interest than it
makes profit. The money is borrowed from a company in a zero tax
paradise so all the profit goes there tax-free.

You can just take the "value" of the imported item to be zero as it
crosses the border if you want to make that stop.

No, that would start a trade war.

There already is a trade war.  The US is unilaterally disarmed.

China, tariffs, manufacturing growing  income S. Korea, tariffs,
manufacturing, growing income US, no tariffs, not manufacturing,
decreasing income

There are treaties, NAFTA and GATT
and stuff, that keep you from doing things like that.

The US already violates those all over the place.  Check out the case on
soft wood lumber.  Besides this would not be a "tariff" it would be a VAT.

And black
markets, if you push things far enough.

I'm not talking about pushing them too far.

A sales tax levels the field.

No it doesn't unless you make apply between companies.  If companies are
exempt, I would be driving Moose Fet Inc's car and living in Moose Fet
Inc's houses and flying on Moose Fet Inc's airplane.  The guys who can't
afford to form companies would be the only ones paying taxes.

John

The company will not pay the sales tax, you will.

That is a myth. Companies pay their owners out of their profits.
Depending on several factors the tax payment is shared between the
customer and the reduction in profit. You have the mirror situation
if you impose an income tax. The workers will demand higher pay to
compensate. It is just as bogus to say that the companies end up
paying all of the income tax as the customers pay all of the sales
tax.


 To the company
any tax is just another P&L line item to manage.

Yes so it reduces profit like I said above.


 Go to any big
company and somewhere in the accounting department is going to be
a model allocating expenses to unit products; salary, benefits,
office space, communications, etc. and taxes.  Otherwise you are
just making a wild guess on how to price your product.

Companies adjust their prices to make the incremental cost of
production equal to the incremental income from sales. The maximum of
a function appears where dY/dX hits zero. It is obvious what they are
doing when you point that out.


 You
work to decrease the tax expense.

No, mostly you work to optimize the profits. Unfortunately for the
economy this is only a local optimization and thus can lead the system
to a less than optimal result, but this is beyond the scope of this
discussion.


 If you are big enough you
hire legions of tax accountants.

Tax accountants are needed in a complex system like we have. Under a
simple VAT system there would be a lot less need for them.


 You also get lobbyist on board
to help manipulate the tax code to your advantage.

And / or pay out right bribes if the government is corrupt enough.

[...]
As far as driving Moose Fet Inc's car, go ahead.  Moose Fet Enterprises
LLC makes the money, Moose Fet Leasing LLC leases the car to you, Moose
Fet Property LLC buys the house and rents it to you, Moose Fet Air LLC
leases you the airplane.  

No it wouldn't be a lease. It would simply be the companies property
that I use 24/7. There is no need for anything more.
.

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