Re: relays

John Fields wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:48:30 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:47:11 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:21:12 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:02:08 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:22:07 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:40:30 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
<zapwireDASHgroups@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hey John,

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
message
news:qblph4lch7ca5kl0q8e3qt8hogfc8rs6k6@xxxxxxxxxx
Play with words, or numbers, all you like. I have been careful to
specify "power gain."

Using your definitions, a mechanical valve can have power gain, yes?
That'd
be an awfully early form of a gain element.

Its power gain is infinite, because once you turn the valve, the
water
flows forever. It's a power integrator, not an amplifier.

---
No, it's an amplifier.

If you turn it a little, a little water will come out, but if you turn
it a lot, a lot of water will come out.

But that water will come out forever, with no further effort exerted
on the valve. The longer you wait, the more output power, without
limit. The output power is the *integral* of the input power.

---
More Larkinese obfuscation.

The point is that _some_ power is used to turn the valve on, so no
matter how much water comes out, for whatever length of time, if power
gain is expressed as the ratio of work out to work in:

Wo
Gp = ----
Wi

Gp can never be infinite as long as Wi is non-zero.

It's exactly the same as charging up the gate of a MOSFET and yet you
don't say a MOSFET has infinite gain, do you?

JF

It has some gate leakage current, so no, its power gain is finite. If
the valve eventually fails for some reason, its power gain would be
finite, too... depending on the failure mode.

The power gain of the valve, or a latching relay, is an integral with
no upper bound. If you name any finite power gain, I can name an
interval over which the gain is 10x as much. So there is no upper
limit. As an engineer, "no upper limit" means "infinite" to me.

---
There may be no upper limit to what appears in the numerator, but it
seems that in order to further the pretext of infinite gain you've
forgotten that the numerator will forever limit the quotient to
something less than what appears in the numerator.

That means that even if the numerator were to become infinite the
quotient couldn't.

Careful, mathematically the limit:

limit(x --> oo, x/k) --> oo for finite k.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: relays
    ... Using your definitions, a mechanical valve can have power gain, yes? ... Its power gain is infinite, because once you turn the valve, the water ... don't say a MOSFET has infinite gain, ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: relays
    ... please post the equation for the power gain of a latching relay. ... Which doesn't alter the fact that a latching relay doesn't have infinite ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: relays
    ... Using your definitions, a mechanical valve can have power gain, yes? ... Its power gain is infinite, because once you turn the valve, the water ... All of which indicates that the power gain of a latching relay is ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: relays
    ... Using your definitions, a mechanical valve can have power gain, yes? ... Its power gain is infinite, because once you turn the valve, the water ... All of which indicates that the power gain of a latching relay is ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: What a Parrot Brained Fuckwit
    ... >>>gain. ... A transformer is ... >> simply an impedance converter. ... >>>power gain, ...
    (rec.audio.pro)
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