Re: OT - Hansen acknowledges solar forcing

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 01:33:41 +0100, "Bill Sloman"
<bill.sloman@xxxxxxxx> wrote:


"Raveninghorde" <raveninghorde@invalid> schreef in bericht
news:6o7hn49a7b81do85sg6mq6u9bp8c308toa@xxxxxxxxxx
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:24:29 -0800 (PST), Martin Brown
<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On Jan 21, 11:20 am, Raveninghorde <raveninghorde@invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:45:19 GMT, Jon Kirwan

<j...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:41:13 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Jon Kirwan wrote:

<snip>

Hansen is a leader in AGW. I thought that him ackowledging an
increased role for solar forcing compared to the "consensus" was a
significant change in attitude. To me the detailed data was less
important than the political shift on solar forcing.

I don't know where you got the idea that it is either one or the
other. You might find it interesting to read the actual IPCC science
reports instead of right wing denialist propaganda.

I'm not an either/or man and I don't read denialist propaganda.

You certainly produce the same kind of defective arguments

I don't deny CO2 and temperature are changing. I do doubt the
magnitude of the A in AGW is close to what Hansen has suggested.

Why?

And Hansen is more politician than scientist now.

He's a famous scientist whose press releases get published
in newspapers. That doesn't make him a politician - has he run
for election to any kind of political job?

For a non politician he's very political. For example:

http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/20081229_DearMichelleAndBarack.pdf



So any back tracking on his part
is interesting.

Since when is incorporating newly available data in a projection
"back-tracking"?

<snipped sensible stuff>

Solar insolation is not the only solar factor that impacts on climate.

Your evidence for this claim is Svensmark's controversial
publications. The most that you can say is that insolation might
not be the only factor that impacts on climate.

Unfortunately many in the AGW camp deny solar factors.

Actually, they ignore them - there isn't enough data to work on.


They ignore solar factors. That's one of the reasons I'm sceptical.


Maunder minimum/little ice age for example.

Which takes us back to a time when we weren't recording very
much about the sun.

Or the solar maximum that caused the medieval warm period.

The claim that the a "solar maximum" caused the little ice age
conflicts with the Tasmanian tree-ring record, which doesn't
show anything that fits the European dates - to put it mildly
this claim is controversial, and not widely accepted.

There is evidence from New Zealand. I published the link a while back.
But assume no MWP or LIA in the Southern Hemishere, there is no doubt
they happened in the northern hemishere. So Northern MWP no matching
Southern cool period means Globe was hotter. QED. And before you say
it is regional so is a lot of the claimed warming going on now.


Best estimates? What makes them the best? Is warmer weather for 3
decades climate change? Is cooler weather for the last 10 years
global cooling?

Silly questions.

Not silly. Until you AGW crowd define your terms it's impossible to
prove you wrong by your own definitions.


Most scientists?

Enough.

How many?

Not that relevant. Good scientists are much more influential than
their less impressive contemporaries.

How many disagree?

Senator Imhofe publishes a list, but he does cheat by including
a lot of people who don't know much about climate science.

You seem slightly caught up in the AGW hype.

And you seem equally caught up in the denialist propaganda
that you claim not to read - by which we probably need to
understand that you don't recognise it as propaganda when
you do read it.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OT - Hansen acknowledges solar forcing
    ... significant change in attitude. ... important than the political shift on solar forcing. ... I'm not an either/or man and I don't read denialist propaganda. ... not be the only factor that impacts on climate. ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: OT - Hansen acknowledges solar forcing
    ... important than the political shift on solar forcing. ... For a non politician he's very political. ... It is true that the observed warming over the past century has been ... transient sea ice and snow cover around the Arctic Circle, ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: OT - Hansen acknowledges solar forcing
    ... read from the body of peer-reviewed climate science papers. ... Meanwhile, Raveninghorde stated, "Hansen admits solar forcing higher ... significant change in attitude. ...
    (sci.electronics.design)