Re: Any Christian Electronic Designers Here?

On Sat, 2 May 2009 17:36:34 -0700, "BobW"
<nimby_GIMME_SOME_SPAM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


"Jon Kirwan" <jonk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:gghpv4hu8jtrvpg3bb9lpaps363ctglpsv@xxxxxxxxxx


So you finally see how ridiculous atheism actually is?

RogerN


If it's okay to have faith that there are gods then it's equally okay to
have faith that there aren't. However, the existence, or lack, of gods
are
both equally not provable.

In my opinion, religion is for insecure people; atheism is for arrogant
people. I like to stay in the middle because I just don't care either way
and I'm pretty sure that I'll never know either way.

Bob


[snip]


Now in Bob's case, it's likely he hasn't been as comprehensive as I
have and may have yet much to study, should he ever care to. So it
may seem reasonable for him to take a weaker position -- that he
doesn't know and ... well, doesn't care to know. For many, that's all
the further it will ever get. And I accept that. The only comment
I'd make to that is that he's giving that particular crazy idea some
room, when he wouldn't give my crazy idea of an invisible dragon in my
garage anywhere near that much room, simply because he knows so many
people who take that crazy idea to heart. If it weren't for that,
he'd treat it exactly as he would my invisible dragon -- with derision
and without having to spend much time investigating it.

[snip]

Jon

Jon,

I appreciate your thoughtful comments.

Thanks.

In the past, I was much more vigilant about pointing out the ridiculous
notions of invisible gods and dragons (except for Puff, of course). The only
real effect was to alienate people.

Earlier, I think I engaged the subject with others too often and
achieved mostly what you say, here. It's just not productive. But
there are people who are trying to argue in order to see just how
solid their own internal belief systems can hold up to scrutiny and I
don't mind engaging them, if and when they indicate that's what they
want -- either by placing little prods out there or else by direct
engagement. Otherwise, I try to avoid prolonged debates over our
internal belief systems and conclusions. People ask. I answer.
Sometimes, they are just insisting on getting kicked in the face and I
may, or may not, decide to help them with that. What else I'm busy on
plays a role, too.

Sometimes, it's business. Little phrases are dropped, like, "God
bless you," in a business negotiation. If you don't respond with the
right phrases, you are then excluded at a later time. (On a few
occasions I've been able to, through other means, verify my guesses
here -- enough to know that it happens here and there and not only and
entirely rarely so.) I understand their desire to feel comfortable
and I don't let this get to me. It's a prejudice that I can live with
and get around. But you can also easily see just how profoundly this
prejudice affects our culture -- a politician simply cannot win for
national office if they are atheist. Worse, they cannot win if they
don't "drop phrases" or "show evidence" of their religious beliefs.
One cannot even succeed hiding one's atheism, because voters search
out even that and take note that the politician failed to make the
explicit overtures they require. I don't mean to compare this with
the kind of prejudices that blacks in the US suffered under in times
past -- my own experiences are nothing by comparison -- but there are
gays in the US Congress and there are blacks in the US Congress. But
try getting there being publicly known as an atheist.

In the 110th Congress, the 535 members broke down like this: Catholic
155; Baptist 67; Methodist 61; Presbyterian 44; Jewish 43; Episcopal
37; Protestant nondenominational 26; Christian nondenominational 18;
Lutheran 17; Mormon 15; United Church of Christ 7; Eastern Orthodox 5;
Christian Science 5; Assemblies of God 4; Unitarian Universalist 2;
African Methodist Episcopal 2; Buddhists 2; Evangelical 2; Seventh Day
Adventists 2; Christian Reformed 2; Disciples of Christ 2; Church of
Christ 2; Congregational Baptist 1; Anglican 1. Reorganized Mormon 1;
Quaker 1; Church of God 1; Muslim 1; Evangelical Lutheran 1; Church of
the Nazarene 1; Evangelical Methodist 1; no affiliation 6. Now, in
September of 2007, Pete Stark "came out" as the first nontheist. But
he had already been elected when that happened.

There is a very deep-seated, profound prejudice in this country and it
DOES affect our lives. The issue is that there isn't a scarlet letter
tattooed to our foreheads, so if we keep quiet about it we are treated
pretty well if we are white and not drooling too much.

Also (and more importantly), a large
percentage of good looking women are religious,

Well, it's hard to avoid that a large number are. Christians pretty
much dominate the US.

so there are political
implications in being too vocal.

As I mention, above.

Several years ago, one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen showed
up at my doorstep touting her Jehovah's Witness beliefs. Talk about getting
caught between the proverbial rock and hard place. I was tempted to convert,
but (thank Jehovah) I resisted the temptation.

hehe.

Jon
.

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