Re: Climatology: a wonderful science

On May 6, 1:37 am, flipper <flip...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2009 09:26:10 -0700 (PDT), bill.slo...@xxxxxxxx wrote:
On May 5, 5:19 pm, John Larkin
<jjlar...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
'He and other researchers are therefore engaged in what they call
"preemptive denial" of a solar minimum leading to global cooling.'

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/05/090504-sun-global-coo....

The only thing wrong with the pre-emptive denial is that they didn't
start pre-emping the denialsist nit-wits fast enough.
We've already had denialist half-wits posting here to blame global
warming on imagined variations in solar output - not that the
variations are imagainary, merely no-where near big enough to explain
the temperature changes

You mean 'not enough' based on the mechanism you presume to be the
only means it could affect climate and using that kind of 'science
logic', radiation didn't exist in 1800 because no one understood it.

There's nothing to stop you postulating indirect mechanisms, but you
also have to show how your explanation could be falsified. I'm aware
of the hypothesised mechanism whereby more sun-spots generate more
solar wind which deposits more high energy protons in the upper
atmosphere, creating more condensation nuclei and more cloud cover.
I'm also aware that wen they looked for the extra could cover, it
wasn't there.

And no need to 'investigate' it either, because it doesn't exist,
because we didn't understand it.

At least one hypothesised mechannism has been postulated, investigated
and falsified. If you've got something new in mind, do tell us about
it.

The correlation between solar activity and climate is at least as
suggestive as the correlation between CO2 and climate but to 'accept'
one, as the sole point of investigation, while denying the other isn't
science, it's religion.

Greenhouse gases aren't the "sole point of investigation" for climate
change - ocean currents and momentum transfer in the atmosphere are
also getting a lot of attention. The effect of the solar wind on the
climate has been looked at, and proved to be a lemon.

Investigators concentrate their efforts on areas where there is an
effect that can be related back to a cause

You say 'the math' doesn't add up for solar, based on your
presumptions. Well, the unfortunate fact is the CO2 math doesn't add
up either.

The maths for suns spots couldn't be made to add up by people who knew
something about the subject. The math for CO2 does add up. What makes
you think that it doesn't? Where is the evidence that has persuaded
you to proclaim this as an "unfortunate fact", rather than a deluded
opinion?

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen


.

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