Re: The end is in sight

James Arthur wrote:
Bob Larter wrote:
James Arthur wrote:
Eeyore wrote:

bill.sloman@xxxxxxxx wrote:

James Arthur <bogusabd...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Show me a country not fitting that description, one where socialism
pays for itself--as opposed to being subsidized by, say, a North Sea
oil bonanza--and you'll have my attention.

China's the only one that pops to mind...
You need a new mind, or at least a second hadn midn taht actually
works. Sweden, Germany, France, the Netherlands ...

What's truly hilarious that one of the lowest national debts is held by Russia ! The
USA's is over TEN times more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

Graham



I specified self-supporting. Russia's surplus comes from nationalizing
their oilfields.

Oh, please.

Kindly document your point then--what's Russia's GDP, major export,
etc.; what accounts for their surplus? Socialism?

To the best of my knowledge, *everything* in Russia is nationalised. That's a totally different argument as to whether or not it's a good thing, but I doubt that anyone would argue that it's the case. In the USSR everything has been nationalised for the best part of a century.

I've been backing everything up, but I can't possibly debunk stuff
as quickly as you can make it up.

Oh, come on. I'm not making stuff up anywhere near as fast as you wingnuts are. ;^)

Whose people had the better standard-of-living, back when we were less
socialist, and communism reigned supreme?

How's that revolution-thing working out for Cuba? It's been what,
50 years? Are they a paragon of health, wealth, science, and
productivity?

I'm interested in examples where public ownership of the means
of production supports its own weight, outperforming alternatives.

According to right wingers, a country can be socialist without "public ownership of the means of production".

Socialism isn't well-defined, is it?

No, it's not.

The US, presently, is acquiring public ownership of banks, factories,
medical services, mortgages, and is growing rapidly.

Yes, you have a point there. Personally, I don't think it's a bad thing, but I can accept that you feel differently about it.

And you haven't mentioned Sweden, Germany, France, or the Netherlands.

Those were offered as "proof", without backup or explanation. Kindly
show that they're sustainable, and a net gain to the country.

Check their GDP as a proportion of their national debt. If their debt is below their GDP, then they're obviously doing okay.

Bonus points given for examples where the rulers deign to use the
same healthcare / retirement systems they create for their subjects.

You think that any POTUS uses an HMO, or collects Social Security in their old age?

Obviously not. That's the point, isn't it?
If it's better, why isn't it voluntary?

Well yeah, exactly. If it was any good, the bosses would be using it. Now check which countries are those where the leaders use the health systems that they provide to the masses. I guarantee that the USA won't be one of them. ;^)
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
.

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