Re: The Spirit is willing but the road is weak (Mars Rover stuck in sand)

On a sunny day (Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:47:49 +0100) it happened Martin Brown
<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in <eZ02m.2165$5c.278@xxxxxxxxxxxx>:

The goal should be: make human settlements on other planets.

You cannot achieve this goal by just wishing it to be true.

Exactly, that is why the political goal setting will not work.
(See below).


If Columbus had send only unmanned probes, then the US would still be
bare land with indian tribes.

The dispossessed Indian tribes might view that as an improvement.

Yes, but technological advancement, world rule, would not be.


I would like to see a manned mission make a settlement there, powered by nuclear
energy.

The current launch vehicles would struggle to move enough mass into the
transfer orbit assuming that you intended to feed your astronauts on
their journey. Robotics needs no food, air, water or creature comforts.

The journey can be short, nuclear pusher plates, vasimir, the hardware can be brought
there in pieces, all with 40 year old tech, same for living habitat.
With short I mean a few weeks, at most a few month.


I would also like to see a probe with *nuclear* propulsion (Vasimir?) just going under
constant acceleration of 1 G to see how fast we can go before Einstein rolls over.

Einstein will not roll over. ISTR at 1g acceleration it takes about 25
years each way to the centre of the galaxy in the rest frame of the
spaceship but a great deal longer in our stationary frame of reference.
The vehicle would be redshifted beyond our observational methods for
most of its trip (probably before it reached c/10).

Well, relativity is just a curve fitting math idea, and we do not really
have a 'mechanism', 'space time curvature' is a bit like 'field',
all it says is : 'This is what we measure, but no idea what does it'.
So, until we have some mechanism for for example gravity, we cannot proceed.
If we had no idea about 'electron' we could not do much in electronics,
vacuum tubes, transistors.
That is why Einstein's has had us stuck in physics for so many years .. no luck there.
This whole generation of relativity math crap has replaced real understanding of physics,
it has lead to nothing, and will lead to nothing.
Now writing this will make some think crackpot, but really nothing to show for it.


We don't have too much bother accelerating clumps of charged particles
up to insane energies using relativistic dynamics calculations. The
rules of the game even allow cunning soliton pulses to stay in shape.

My view is this:
You cannot accelerate a particle FTL with (by) a wave that moves at C.
The surfer never moves faster then the waves, no matter how huge you make the waves.
And that is what is happening in accelerators, trying to accelerate a charged particle with an EM field.
Dead end road :-)


GPS would fail to work if Einsteins GR & SR were inaccurate.

As I stated, the math works out, but the mechanism is missing.
Building dream castles from that math (incomplete equations that do not REALLY describe reality
(do they ever)) leads to 'wormholes', 'twin paradox', 'warp drives', 'time travel',
seeds for Hollywood scifi productions, but nothing real to show for it.
It is not that clocks do not slow down in a gravity 'field' (gravitational well),
but that a mechanism is needed, I have some idea about that.... But physics
has become that math crap instead of understanding.
Not anything wrong with math, it is great to QUANTIFY things, but it explains nothing.


OK, maybe by that time we can send some DNA to the stars, to seed other planets,
maybe that is how we came about in the first place, dunno, more likely
life is everywhere.

We have already done that accidentally. Viable bacterial spores were
brought back from the moon lander that Apollo visited. I expect Voyager
probes are similarly endowed.

Good.


It was politics or rather a proxy for the Cold War that put men on the
moon. NASA was the mechanism by which it was delivered.

Not REALLY.
Von Braun had a dream, he wanted the moon, from very young age.
He was a great opportunist too, worked for Hitler as it helped his dream,
and then for the US, and used it.
He was successful, and a great organiser too.
He NEVER changed target, never.
When he finally changed target to mars, things ended.

I hope they do go. It would be good to have a new series of Moon
missions - and bring back a couple of bits of real Apollo hardware to
beat the living daylights out of the conspiracy nutters with a piece.

We already have moon rocks, laboratories all over the world studied those.



A Chinese meal would be very expensive, but it would save then carrying that weight...
Ah, I see the strategy now ;-)

Space exploration to colonise other planets will be so expensive that
onbly a global collaborative effort will stand any chance of success.
Looking at the ISS as an early attempt I am not all that optimistic.


No, it is not so expensive, it is a simple engineering project, making it an
international political game leads to ISS like stuff, where a laboratory is launched into space where nobody
has any idea what to do in it (like that Japanese lab module), THEN it becomes super expensive,
simpler to burn the money.


.

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