Re: Massive Shooting at Fort Hood

On Nov 14, 9:54 pm, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:50:43 -0600, Jim Yanik <jya...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:



"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <p...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:INydnUO5W69e-2HXnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

Jim Yanik wrote:

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <p...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:4AFB35FD.40BEB67A@xxxxxxxxxxxxx:

Jim Yanik wrote:

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <p...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:4AFB26A7.F9E9853E@xxxxxxxxxxxxx:

Joel Koltner wrote:

"Jim Yanik" <jya...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Xns9CC057D21713Bjyaniklocalnetcom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
FYI,illegally crossing the border "looking for work" is STILL
a felony criminal act.

Yes.

It's also a great drain on America's ecconomy.

That one's a lot more subjective: Overall all those illegal
immigrants contribute a lot more to the economy than they take
from it, right? I mean, this is the main reason, IMO, that many
conservatives are "soft" of illegal immigration: They know
darned well that costs will rise and profits will shrink if
someone could throw a switch and have all of them instantly
teleported back to their native countries.

It need to be halted.

Yes.

Or the laws changed, but not enforcing the laws you have in a
country is a path to diaster.

That's not the American way.

http://law.jrank.org/pages/1870/Prosecution-Prosecutorial-Discreti
on .ht ml

the "discretion" MUST benefit the US,not illegals.
No rewarding their felony crime of illegal entry.

It does. Who else is going to pick lettuce or other produce?

there's already provision for -legal- guest workers.

In the
final analysis, these people contribute a lot more to our economy
than they take away.

I believe you're wrong.
Much of the money they are paid gets sent back to Mexico,where it
DOESN'T benefit -our- economy.
then add in the emergency room costs and the crime costs.
then add in the unemployment of US citizens who don't have jobs
because the lower-paid illegals took them.
I note that illegals are moving up into better paying construction
(and auto mechanic)jobs,and other skilled labor jobs.There's even
courses offered to teach "construction spanish" to US construction
foremen so they can communicate with the illegals.

Now you're starting to sound like one of those pro-union, liberal, WTO
protester types. In a true free market economy, if you don't want the
Mexicans to take your job away, underbid them.

DUH,then ILLEGAL immigration lowers wages,and hurts the economy.
(workers earn less,cannot buy things,businesses suffer,tax revenues
drop,and gov't must cut back or deficit spend.
The US economy takes a big hit.)

It's an OUTSIDE influence that should not be occurring.
And you "liberals" are supposed to be for "fairness"....shame on you.

They pay taxes, for example (possibly using fake SSNs)
but they'll never collect the benefits.

Illegals tend to "work under the table",or off the record.
That's how the employers get away with paying them less,and no
benefits like workmans comp.

Employers don't 'get away with' much.

Yes,they do.

The IRS aside, our state audits
employers constantly to make sure their fees and state disability
premiums get paid. Particularly in the construction business, where
inspectors are already visiting job sites. Any illegal workers are
obtaining SSNs (and fake ID) and submitting it to the contractor.

And "progressives" block making employers verify SSNs against the notices
gov't sends them.They block ID verification.

Social security, medicaid and income tax is withheld from their wages.
The contractor pays business taxes, the workers buy goods (sales tax)
and pay rent (property tax, indirectly). So I don't have a problem
with them showing up at the emergency room if they need it.

As for the
remaining money that they might send back home, I (and a number of
noteworthy large local corporations) send far more cash offshore than
the Mexicans do.

I believe that is an unfounded claim.
I note that cash checking businesses are doing huge business with money
transfers,and are a rapidly growing phenomenon.It's rather hard to track
all the money that gets sent to Mexico by illegals.

All the big businesses have to do a lot of gov't paperwork to do fund
transfers out of the country.That stuff gets looked at hard.
(BTW,Obama has said he intends to crack down on offshore accounts.YOU may
have a problem in the future.)

As for crime, the illegal workers aren't a bigger problem here than
others of similar socio-economic status. Less of a problem, in fact,
because they seem to want to lay low and not attract attention.

I believe you're wrong on that.Much of California's budget problems are due
to costs of illegal immigration;crime costs,and medical care.

No, Jim, California's budget problems date from setting up long term
entitlement programs from the temporary tax income spike from the
housing bubble. I know i was here on the ground in state while it
happened.

There's certainly that--California was living beyond its means even in
the best of times. And when the bubble hit they spent even more.

But, 2.8 million illegals are a big drain. This LA Times article
rattles off $6.8 B in direct expense to the state:
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/local/me-cap2

That includes some underestimates, excludes local costs, and excludes
the effects of, for example, taking all the jobs teenagers used to
depend on for work experience and cash.

These guys estimate the cost at $10B in 2004:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

--
Cheers,
James Arthur


.

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